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1969 Karman Ghia Build (UK)
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: 1969 Karman Ghia Build (UK) Reply with quote

Iíve been reading this forum for a while now, without posting much so I thought I better introduce myself and car properly. The following build thread is a collection of posts Iíve made on the KGOC in the UK over the last year or so since I bought my car, starting last June. (Interestingly the car looks a lot better in the first photos than I remember a year ago, if only I knew then what I was lurking underneath!) If you're reading this in US you may well ask why did I bother with restoring this car rather than importing a dry state car from America? Well I wanted an original right hand drive car from the UK, and there aren't that many left as most have rotted away and been scrapped. I enquired with the DVLA in the UK and there are only 9 original UK KG coupes left on the road from 1969, the rest are left hand drive imports or conversions. So I thought it was worth saving to make it 10 UK '69 coupes on the road Smile



June 2011
I picked the car up a couple of weeks ago, itís a í69 coupe registered 3 weeks before I was born which was what drew me to it, (that and the fact itís a factory right hand drive) It was last on the road in 1995 and has been dry stored since. Iím in the process of stripping the interior and mechanical parts to prepare for some sill, heater channel, door bottoms and spare wheel well repair. But apart from that it seems to be fairly solid (so far!) it has come with no engine, bumpers or front screen, engine is being built hopefully for about 3 months time, just need to find the time to do the bodywork.

Carl.

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July 2011

A quick update, Iíve stripped the interior out, and endured the painstaking scraping of the tar sound deadening off the floor to reveal the floorpan, followed by a good rotary wire brush + flapper wheel where needed.
My willing helper (my son) was quick to point out that black may not have been the carís first colour Rolling Eyes
The pans donít appear to be in too bad a shape, with only a couple of small holes at the lowest point of the passenger floorpan. There have been some repairs around the rear shock mounts which someone has done the classic welding over the rust rather than bother cutting it out. I spent this afternoon grinding away the old rust underneath to reveal solid metal, I was originally going to replace this with a new panel, but it appears they donít make it as a repair panel so Iíll probably fabricate something to join the boot floor to the arch.
The passenger side has some similar rust starting although nowhere near as bad as the drivers side.
Still havenít plucked up the courage to attack the sills, I know the passenger one is shot, but the drivers one looks fine apart from around the jacking point and the heater outlet, Itís bound to be worse than it seems though !
On the bright side, it looks like the engine compartment is OK, including the battery tray and it appears the back of the rear arches have had new bottom(s) put in at some point which means they are also good.

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The old repair ground back to remove the rust it was patching up, the metal is actually considerably thicker than that Karmann seemed to use and has suffered only surface rust. The big gap is a strip I had to cut out to access the old rust and gives me some good metal to join the from the floor to the arch. I stripped off the rest of the paint from the inner arch to make sure there were no more horrors lurking !
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Spent some time cutting out the rot from the rear o/s inner arch, and then some more, and moreÖ
Basically it looks like whoever welded this particular part of the car just patched on top of the rust without cutting it out, even to the extent that some of the patches were 3 deep !! Iím told it was common practice to do this in the 80′s anyway I hope itís nearly all out, certainly more Ďfresh air in the car !

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Last edited by carl4x4 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

September 2011

Not much progress over the summer, as weíve been away virtually every weekend in our other VW Ė a camper 
I did however manage to pick up some rather nice seats which should suit the classic motorsport Iím aiming to do in the GhiaÖ
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highback type seats but with a bit more support, with tilt forward to access the rear seats. They are just resting on the pan at the moment until I weld in some mounting brackets. All for the princely sum of £60 for the pair including runners 

The pans are surprisingly solid apart from a small patch needed on the passenger side, no doubt there will be some more rust lurking. Iíve spoken to the previous owner who had it for 20 odd years and itís had a few semi-restorations in the past but no-one has bothered to strip it as far as I have it seems. Just sent a load of parts off to the engine builder including a 76mm crank, scat 35 cam, 90.5mm barrels and pistons (this makes 1955cc with the long stroke crank)


October 2011

Well the Ghia made itís journey to the welders today, after I admitted defeat and decided to get a professional to do the welding (there were just too many complex joins & corners for a novice welder like myself!)
Typical, when I do take the Ghia out (even if it is on the back of a trailer) I only see one other old VW in 100 miles ! just a fleeting glimpse of an Orange Ghia on the M25.

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First pics of the rear arch repair, heís fabricated a new piece to replace the boot floor section that has rotted through, and used a Beetle body mount arch section which is a very good fit considering you canít buy that section for the Ghia any more. Itís a work in progress obviously but Iím pleased I didnít attempt it with my novice welding skills 
Before:


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The Beetle section offered up, plus a new fabricated part to match the Beetle part with the Ghia:&#8232
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Welded in so far
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welding Continued...

An update for this week, The sills have revealed some predictable horrors, the heater channels crumbled away when the outer sills were removedÖ

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What was leftÖ
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Some repairs to the floorpan, plus new heater channels, sills, inner & outer rear wing repair panels
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New heater channels going back on the offside;
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plus new inner & outer rear wing panels
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(The doors will be addressed later)
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Very pleased with the end result on this side, the guy doing the welding has put a lot of work and thought into it, with a lot of new metal that should see off the rot for a good few more years A trial fit of the doors before the sills finally went on made sure all the gaps were correct 


Next was the offside sills, which are predictably shocking, words fail meÖ 
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But after a lot of work, the passenger side has been transformed from the picture above to thisÖ including a new door bottom skin plus bottom inner frame
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rear popout windows were hiding some nasty rot under the seals so these have been cut out and new pieces crafted and welded into place

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I was a bit worried about this repair as you canít buy a repair panel for here but the results are some real nice metalwork 

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On to the boot, which for those of you who have restored a Ghia before will know you canít get a repair panel (at least not that Iíve found in the UK)

The old rusty section cut out:

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inner frame ground and prepped

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New section fabricatedÖ (Iíve no idea how he does this, I dread to think what it would look like if I tried)
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Fitted
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With the boot seals fitted and a quick skim of filler and youíd never know
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

November 2011

Final push on the Ghia welding this week sorting out the front of the car. The spare wheel well was rotten plus some of the bottom of the front wings, including some of the sides of the wheel well needed fabricating. As with the rest of the car this didnít seem to phase the guy doing the welding!

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Repairing the wheel well
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From the inside
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And the end result, one very solid 1969 Karmann Ghia 

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EddieMK2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW...very nice fab work and great solid ghia now.

Good luck with this.
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decenber 2011

Managed to finish stripping the floorpans this weekend and treat any remaining surface rust. finished with a coat of satin black looking nice and solid

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A previous owner had used underseal on the exposed metal in the engine bay, Iíve started stripping it off to reveal some surprisingly clean metal underneath. There is a bit of surface rust near the battery but itís not that bad and should clean up nicely once treated.

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still need to scrape off some more of the underseal in all the nooks & crannies.


January 2012

Update for this weekend, the cold weather is slowing progress a bit, but the interior panels have been stripped of rust, glue and 40 years of rubbish. then given two coats of smootherite satin black. The dash and underside will be body-coloured

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The rear luggage area, and inner arches are now looking decent considering the mess of rust and holes they were when I started
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The engine bay has had the same treatment
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Next step is marking up, photographing and removing the wiring loom, are they all this messy?
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

February 2012

I made a start on some 914 gauges Iíve bought, the ones in the car are in pretty poor shape and with a bigger engine I wanted a little more information than speed and fuel level. I managed to pick up a Porsche 914 dash pod for a decent price off US eBay, mainly because the rev-counter had something rattling around in it:

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The aim is to use the Rev counter in the current speedo hole with the speedo and auxiliary gauge either side. Iíve removed the 914 fuel gauge and plan on replacing it with either a volt gauge or the remainder of the warning lights. I took the rev-counter to bits expecting to fit the innards broken and found this inside, One of the dash lights had just come lose Very Happy
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March 2012

Update for this week, the carís back from having itís IRS conversion. In the UK the í69 was still swing axle, so we never had right hand drive Ghias with small rear lights and IRS. I now have an IRS rear end with a 1302s gearbox, frame horns clearanced, gearbox strapped down & polybushed with adjustable IRS suspension arms.

So itís now a a small bumper car with a fat-chick suspension
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The paint prep has now started, I also took the nostril grills out to inspect what lurked behind them. Not too bad considering the age of the car, a small bit of rot thatís been patched before on one of the fresh air boxes, but apart from that seems to be ok. The headlamp bowls are solid (I think they have been replaced before) and one mark above the o/s nostril which I thought was rust just turned out to be cracked filler from a previous repair with solid metal underneath.Of course thereís a lot more filling and sanding ahead of meÖ

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April 2012

Update for this month, decided to order the Red9design wishbone front end, spent months deliberating and finally decided to order one today. Six weeks waiting list I canít wait ! Very Happy
I did lots of reading up on peopleís views and reviews of the design. It seem to be a real marmite thing, but the people I talked to who had it were extremely pleased with the kit.


Prepped the bonnet seal channel today, many layers of paint with a few bits of rust bubbling through but thankfully no more holes. Treated then etch primed:
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Same with the bonnet underneath where it rests on the bonnet seal
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Removed the rear screen, then prepped both front and rear screen surrounds, plus the engine lid surround and modify the headlamp buckets (so I can move one lamp up the wing as a previous repair welded it in in the wrong place Rolling Eyes )
Many hours were spent scraping off the old paint & rust from the surrounds, then grinding back, curing & primingÖ Wherever a rubber seal seems to be fitted to these cars it turns out to be a bit of a rust trap!

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The rear shelf turned out better than I expected;
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAY 2012

Update on the Porsche 914 dials
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With the wheel:
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And with the new wheel I purchased, not sure which I preferÖ
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It does look like a bolt-on at the moment but just using the plastic surround as a template to cut the holes in the dash. Iím not a huge fan of the stick on wood finish dash so I was going to recover the dash face in something else (with a semi-rigid backing) which would cover the radio hole and the various holes cut over the years for all the aftermarket bits & pieces.


The front air box channel was repaired today, a large chunk was cut out, fabricated then welded back in. When we cut the rusted section out we found three alloy plates riveted on and a bunch of filler hiding the rust ! Rolling Eyes (I don't know why I'm still surprised by these things!)
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With the seam sealer going on;
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May 2012, Paint

I trailered the car down to the same guy who did my welding yesterday as I decided Iíd get the paint done properly by someone I trusted.
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Rear done today, including Iím told several hours removing flaking paint from the engine lid grills (I think he almost lost his sense of humour at this pointÖ)
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Some more updated pics, really pleased with how itís coming on. Itís the first time Iíve seen it in a single colour for a long time!
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Just look at those lines, thatís why I fell in love with these cars when I was a kid Cool
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The Ghia is back home now after an epic Fridayís traffic on the M25! The pictures speak for themselves Very Happy Amazed how different the colour looks in different lights/shade, The colour is an old 60's VW colour anthracite grey.

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Now with a windscreen for the first time since Iíve had the car !;
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On itís way home (desperately need to sort out the wheels now !);
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work so far...I have a 1969 Ghia as well and its no where near the point your car is at the moment. I do not have to contend with the rusty areas, but I do have to deal with some less than stellar bodywork attempts at the previous owner's hands. Keep it up and I will be following this thread. Thank you for sharing...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

June 2012

Today I trial fitted the 8-spoke wheels I bought for a bargain off eBay a few months back. Long story short I got my offset measurements wrong and they are et19 not 35 which I calculated (doh!)
Oh well, I went through all my old choices until I ended back at the old 914 wheel options, Iím not too keen on the polished rim & black, but then I thought Iíd mess around with a bit of Photoshop and see what theyíd look like in body colour, toying between these and some Gas Burners...

(photo curtesy of Shoptalkforums)

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Trial fitted the long stroke engine today, itís a bit "snug" will probably have to trim the engine bay seal channel. Not surprising I suppose seeing as itís wider than a standard engine

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JULY 2012

Fitted the Red9Design wishbone front end last weekend, went smoothly on the whole, apart from a few small bits of trimming where there have been some previous repairs to the floorpan.

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A really nice piece of kit Smile
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I'm pleased with the stance, not too high or low, the coilovers have movement left to adjust the height.
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Karmann Gheezer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carl, you should be commended. Your hard work and dedication will give pride to a beautiful RHD ride. Applause

Regards,
Ray
btw, that paint reflection is superb.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the lower section of the engine hood, by any chance did you use a tipping die? If not, what tools did you use to make the part with?

I have to do the same on my 74 sooner or later and was wondering if you took any additional pictures of how you did that. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow man! Nice work!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading British magazines like Thoroughbred & Classic Cars and Classic Car Restorer for almost twenty years and it never ceases to amaze me the work being done all over the UK. You guys will tackle projects that would be junked in N. America, and in your tiny little garages would be sheds over here.

Much respect to you, sir!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses, I'll try and answer them;

- The bottom of the boot section was done by heating up the metal then tapping it out with hammers (I suspect a special hammer) to get the curve I'm told. He first straightened the old peice out to give himself a template to work from. Not sure how he formed the return on the bottom but I think he said it was done around a suitable metal shape/bar section by section.

- Yes I do have stupidly small garage compared to you guys in the States Sad and I am constantly jealous of the amount of space I see on people's build threads in the US ! but as we're such a small island we have to make do Wink

- I think the reason we take on these projects is that most old cars in the UK are like this due to the amount of salt that's put on the roads here during the winter. It eats away at the cars after a while, I frequently see modern cars - particularly Mercs from the early 2000's with rust on them!

- Regarding the shine on the paint, it's a modern water-based two-pack base coat that dries flat, then two coats of clear laquer was put over the top to give the shine . It was then flatted back to remove any imperfections then polished.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: 69 ghia build (UK) Reply with quote

what size is your motor?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1950 or 1955cc can't remember (bit embarrassing that !)
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