Best carb for an 1800 build?

[D/A/N]

I'm building an 1800 following many aspects of the aircooled.net guide at

http://www.hornbyislandwares.com/acn/1737/1800cc-vw-engine-no-machine-combo/

but I'm in need of some carbs.

I've been running a set of Kadrons on my 1600DP and frankly, they've been a royal PITA....I've had needle valve problems, linkage problems, jetting problems, vac. leak problems, accelerator pump nozzle problems, check ball problems, etc. and I'm sick of them. Maybe I've had every Kad problem there is and I'll be good for the foreseeable future but somehow I doubt it, so even though I could get bigger venturis and re-jet for an 1800, I'm just not feeling it.

I'd like to follow a lot of the advice I see people giving and get a pair of Dellortos, but I don't feel right just buying a set off someone on the classifieds w/o being able to see the carbs in person. I've read of people getting burned that way.

I feel like that leaves me with either a CB performance or Redline Weber kit or the EMPI HPMX's.

Should I go for Webers, the EMPI clone (which I've read is actually quite good as long as someone goes through them first) or just get new jets and venturis for my Kads?

Parts of the build relevant to my carb question:

Engle 110 cam
Engle lifters
74mm DPR crank
DPR rods
DPR lightened flywheel
AA 88mm slip-in p/c's
all dynamically balanced at DPR
ACN's L3 heads

[W1K1]

Dellortos from alfa1750 on ebay are like brand new when you get them. I have bought dells before and had them rebuilt, it cost about the same.
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1973 super 2110cc
1965 squareback 1500E-sold
1971 bay window westy- EJ2.5 subi swap

[sactojesse]

[DarthWeber]

Ditto on the Dell 36DRLA's w/30mm vents. D/A/N, glad to see you are going with the 88 x 74 combo. Good for you! Just a suggestion in case you are tight on space in the engine compartment, you can also use the 5.325" short rods (H beams) which will limit the amount of barrel shims needed. Engine width will be very close to stock.
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[Alstrup]

Oh, edit. I missed the info part in the first post.

36 Dells will be sufficient in such a set up. The L3´s would limit performance, but aid in giving good lower end torque. for the displacement I would definitely go 32 m venturi.

Going back to your Kads. With a W110 cam your idle will always be bad. That doesnt mean that they wohnt or cant run decent everywhere else in the rpm.

Since you need new heads anyway, take a look at Timms Super stock heads w. 37,5/32 valves, at 189 per head. I seem to think that for the money that is a very good set of heads. They punch all the right buttons in my book. With similar heads that I do myself I have pulled 118-120 hp @ 5200 rpm and 175 Nm torque peak at 3600 several times, with massive low end torque too, - on 1914´s, which are not too far from your build.
I used stock heaterboxes and then stepped up to a 1½" merge header that had 1 3/8" tube size from 2&4 too, making it real step. A full 1½" merge header would stretch the power band further and most likely aid with a few ponies too.
36 Dells begin to brake about 110 hp. From thereon up it gets difficult. I have pulled 122 hp once with them, but it is not worth the trouble. I did it to sort of find the limits within reason.

T

[AlteWagen]

You will LOVE the 36 dells once dialed in. Add a 1 1/2 merged header and 80 reliable hp with 30mpg should be easy.

Kadrons are a good carb as well once all the issues are worked out (seems like you have already). A 30mm vent and appropriate jetting will give great performance and mpg. Upgrade to SCAT universal linkage is a must!! Also rebushed throttle bodies is almost always required (even on new sets).

There is a ton of info out there for Kadrons if you want to make all the modifications yourself, if not Kaddie Shack will do it AND offer a warranty.

I was in their shop the other day and heard them tell a customer that if they bought all the parts for an engine they would assemble it for free. The guy was going to bring in his used kadrons and they would rebuild, rebush and jet the carbs to the engine to maximize output and ease of installation.

[D/A/N]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I'm kind of blown away by how emphatic everyone is about Dellortos.....I guess I read so many posts about Webers and Kadrons that I just assumed folks would come down on the side of either of them.

I checked out this alfa1750 guy on ebay and he seems like the man. If I go with these, he offers the fuel banjos in an option of dual or single. Which should I choose and what difference would it make?

As for exhaust (I think 2 people mentioned it...) the L3 heads (I already bought them so there's no wiggle room there) and the stock heater boxes limit me to a 1 3/8" header max as far as I know. At the moment though I'm using a Tri-Mil "hotdog" muffler on my 1600 w/ Kads and I like it....good sound....no complaints and according to ACN it flows as well as dual quiet packs though I have no way of confirming that.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Tri-Mil-Hotdog-Muffler-VW-Beetle-and-Ghia-p/tri-mil-hotdog.htm

Alstrup.....I struggled to get a good idle even with the stock cam and my Kads so I don't want to go back to a crappy idle. Had to change jets a few times, switch from an 019 to SVDA, and play with timing and mixture to finally get an idle that wasn't so rich I wanted to puke at stop lights. Good and steady now. But you say 32mm venturis for sure, yes?

[[email protected]]

where did we say the hotdog flowed as well as dual QPs? That is not true. I consider the Hotdog Muffler to be good for no more than 110hp. But at that point the Vintage Speed dual pea shooter mufflers are on the table, and 125 and 150hp rated.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05200-p/155-203-05200.htm

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Super-Flow-Muffler-155-203-052SF-p/155-203-052sf.htm
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[Alstrup]

32 venturies, yes.

No, you are NOT limited to 1 3/8" header with stock valves. But unless you are ready to pay a little extra for a true step 1 3/8 - 1½" header you might as well stay 1 3/8. Just make sure you get a decent muffler on it. - a sgl. quiet is not enough. Dual would be fine. Get the picture.

I know what they say about the hotdog muffler. I have also seen some people claim high HP numbers with it. I have never seen anything like it myself, and I would NEVER use one on an engine pulling more than 90ish hp.

Vintage claims their entrance muffler will handle up to 125 hp (!) That is pushing it. 110 is more in touch with real life. The large one I do not know anything about. I recommend my own/TT´s std plus 1½" muffler to engines up to 110 hp. It can handle a little more than that, but at 110 hp the back pressure begins to rise quite quick.

But the L3´s will most likely not support more than about 100 hp anyway in that set up, so there is no need to overdo the muffler. Just make sure that it will handle 100 - 110 hp.

Sounds like you have been in the ropes with the Kads. I fear that you will experience the same to a certain extend with a set of Dells. any set of carbs that are out of tune makes the engine run like crap.
when you get that puppy up and running, it might be a very good idea to consult somebody who knows his way around carbs, and have him help you adjust and trim them to your engine. That might save you a lot of trouble down the road.
Just my 02 C.

T

[D/A/N]

[[email protected]]

fixed; it was a cloning error.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net

[D/A/N]

[AlteWagen]

The key to setting up dual carbs that you dont have to mess with all the time is GET QUALITY LINKAGE AND AIR FILTRATION! Dont try to save some money and get used linkage either. Parts wear (heims, pivots, hex bar, etc)

CB deluxe offset manifold/linkage/air filter combo is the best bang for the buck. Easy to install and adjust.

CSP center pivot linkage is nicer but more expensive. Berg is not my favorite. SCAT universal can be made to work well and also is inexpensive.

Cast air cleaner bases are a must, as are quality oiled elements. Remember, clean air means clean jets.

[Alstrup]

A 1 3/8 to 1½" step header. to get a true step hear from all 4 cylinders you need to custom order it. the Primaries should be ablout 21-22" if memory serves. It oughta give you a little more umph in the upper rpm band over a straight 1 3/8" header.

It´s kinda funny. a lot of people really dig the CSP pivot style linkage. I dont use it unless I´m ordered to it by the customer or have space problems. I like the CB system (Or the equivallent CSP) With the CB I do modify the hex bar and ball joints for better long life durability. The Berg is a PITA to get right. Once its there its there.

T

[D/A/N]

[AlteWagen]

yes the 3125.

Personally I do not use the CSP on my own builds as it is too cost prohibitive for what it is. My favorite is the SCAT universal for Kadrons

[Alstrup]

We machine the pivot balls "flat" for about 2,3 mm, then make a bronze bushing that fit the balls with 1/10mm slack. Grease them with MS2 grease and for get about them for 25 - 30.000 miles, except for an annual or bi annual regrease dependant on enviroment and mileage.

T

[vwracerdave]

The SCAT centerpull linkage works very well on dual Kadrons. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SCAT-Centerpull-Linkage-Dual-Carbs-30050-p/30050.htm

They also work great on dual IDF, HPMX, or DRLA if you use these CB 3406 arms. http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=546

I won't ever again use the CB hex bar junk.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[D/A/N]

[Glenn]

I like any breather that allows the oil to drain back to the engine.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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