Front Tire Size with Drop Spindles on 73 Standard Beetle?

[Converted]

Hi folks,

I have a 1970 Standard beetle with Drop Spindles. The front tires rub like you would not believe. There is a groove in each tire there they rubbed on the front fenders.

Anyways they are currently the same size as the tires on the back. P195s, cant remember the rest.

The shocks are good as there is a good amount of bounce back.

I need to get two new front tires and need to know what size to get. Then I sit in the car you can see the fender touching the tire.

Here is the only photo of the car that I have at the moment....

[dubllyou]

I went with 145/65-15 on mine but that's a pretty small tire. I think I'm gonna see if I can find a 165/65 next time. Here's a link to a nice calculator you can play around with to get a visual.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php?tires=165-80r15-165-65r15

Here's a shot of my '70 with 2.5" drop in the front and 145/65 front 195/60 in the rear. I like the way it looks with even spacing above the tires front and rear... except I want to lower the rear which will change that. That's another reason I want to go a little wider and taller in the front...to even the spacing back up with the rear lowered.

Not even close to rubbing at all.

In case you aren't familiar 195/60 means 195mm width, sidewalls are 60% of width. Sorry if you already knew that but helps immensely in trying to figure things out.

edit: Here's a better shot right after I put them on. It sets a little high in this one because the trunks empty, no spare or tools in there because the stock 165's rubbed bad.

_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right...
three lefts do.

Wade

[andk5591]

You have 2 problems - if you have the wheels that I think you do, the offset kicks them out 1/4 to 1/2" from a stock wheel. THEN you have dropped spindles that also kick you out about 1/2" per side. Thats why you have that skateboard look happening. I am running dropped spindles on one car with stock wheels that bring me in as far as possible (cant remember which ones they are ET41t?) and am still closer than I like with 155/80s. A narrowed beam (2") will take care of you problem. We did that on anotehr car and am running a pretty substantial tire with it down almost 3".

I dont think you will like the look with really small tires.....
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[dubllyou]

[Converted]

How much and how difficult would it be to put on a narrower beam?
_________________
1970 Standard Beetle
1973 Standard Beetle

[Mike Fisher]

If you run Those wheels you Can't lower the car! If you run a narrowed beam you Lose your turning radius.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Converted]

Looks like im fixing the POs mistake.

So what would be the most cost effective to make this drivable with regards to the tire rub?
_________________
1970 Standard Beetle
1973 Standard Beetle

[Mike Fisher]

You could probably run the stock 165R15 tires without rubbing?
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Converted]

Thats what I was thinking of doing It currently has 185/60/15 on the front. They rub pretty good when im sitting in it.

Thought about getting some 165, 160 or 155's.

Here is a photo of how it sits not with no one in it:

_________________
1970 Standard Beetle
1973 Standard Beetle

[Mike Fisher]

I have a good used set of Made in Brazil 165X80X15 with the Michelin XZX tread pattern for sale. dubllyou is only 15 miles from me, but you don't have your location in your Signature! For comparison I have 185X60 & 205X70 on my square. I am 1 & 2 inner splines lowered front & rear w/1.5" forward rake. You want to fill the gap w/no rubbing!

_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[andk5591]

Plug your numbers into this to see what you get with different widths, etc. Going to a stock width tire will only gain you 0.4" on the outside, but maybe its enough.

http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[pbullblue]

195/65 Rear
175/65 Front

[dubllyou]

[Converted]

I went over to my father in laws today. His 72 Super has the same set up as mine with the drop spindles in the front. He is running 185/55/15 and he doesnt have any rub on his.

Thinking about going that route. Not 100% sure, will need to measure his and mine to make sure.
_________________
1970 Standard Beetle
1973 Standard Beetle

[dubllyou]

If his '72 is a super, it's got McPherson struts in the front so it wouldn't use drop spindles for lowering and might not make such a good comparison. Even if it is lowered the same amount, his wheels wouldn't be pushed out the extra 1/2" because of the spindles. You could swap one of his wheels and tires onto the front of yours and know for sure the tires will fit... if his wheels are the same width and have the same offset as yours.

Your 185/60's have a 111mm sidewall and his 185/55's are about 102 so you wouldn't be gaining much in height and the width is the same. Personally I think a 100mm sidewall might work but you're going to have to go narrower...like 165 or 175 maybe, to get the sidewall to curve in and clear the fender lip. Even pbullblue's 175's aren't a good comparison because his wheels are only 4.5" wide and the have a different offset. You're wheels are wider and have more positive offset.

I've put alot of thought into this since I bought my front tires without thinking about it enough... can ya tell?

Another option is stiffer shocks to cut down on some of the travel.... How are your fillings?

edit: Ya' know, the more I look at your pics, I think you could just go narrower and keep pretty much the same height. You've got the clearance over the tire, it's the width that's killin ya.
_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right...
three lefts do.

Wade

[Converted]

Yeah probably so. I have been doing some looking and found the following....

My rims are 5.5 by the way.

Khumo 155/60/15

http://www.tirebuyer.com/tires/kumho/solus-kh16/p/tv193000999

These would get me an inch narrower and an inch shorter. What do you think?
_________________
1970 Standard Beetle
1973 Standard Beetle

[dubllyou]

Those would work but you might find they are a little too small. They'd be 10mm wider than mine but just a tad shorter with a 93mm sidewall compared to 94.75 on mine. A 165/65 would have a 107mm sidewall, 165/60 would be 99mm and both would be a little over 3/4" narrower (edit: than your 185's). 155/65 would be 100.75mm. It's one thing to play with the numbers and come up with something that might work, it's completely another to actually find a readily available tire that size.

A 2" narrowed beam would probably give you alot more room to play with, and might even make the tires you have fit inside the fenders (edit: but they might rub the inner fenderwell or the headlight buckets when you turn), and would involve narrowed torsion springs and tie rods to go with it...and probably new ball joints and tie rod ends etc since you're in there.
_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right...
three lefts do.

Wade

[Converted]

Hmm. Good point, I dont think I would like that Narrow of a tire.

The other two sizes I have been looking at are:

165/55r15
175/55r15

Im pretty sure the 165/55 would work. The 175/55 would be a but wider but would that cause me problems again with rub.
_________________
1970 Standard Beetle
1973 Standard Beetle

[dubllyou]

165/65. That would be 107mm sidewall, only 4mm shorter than what you've got, but narrow enough that it should miss the fender without being too skinny and still give decent ground clearance. I think the 165/55 would be too short at 90mm sidewall. Mine are 94mm and are pretty short. The shorter you go, the closer the beam is to the ground (and the faster your speedo spins since it runs on the left front) ..mine hasn't got much clearance as-is and I wouldn't recommend going shorter than that because you end up with the suspension being lower than the rim (not good in a front blowout situation) .
On wheel width to tire width, 5.5" is about 140mm so your 185's are quite a bit wider than the wheel. I believe wheel width is measured from the bead area on the inside of the wheel and not edge to edge on the outside. A 165 tire would have a tread width of ~ 140mm, pretty close to the wheel width so the sidewalls would be close to vertical.

I'm played out..

Next time I buy tires, I'm going to flop down for 165/65 and take my chances...again.

Best of luck and make sure you post back with the results!
_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right...
three lefts do.

Wade

[whacky_ghia]

Spent a few hours combing thru the archives and I can not find any definitive answer to the question: "what is the decrease in radius when installing a 2" narrowed beam" ?
People describe the difference as not much, 90% of stock, bad. But no one has ever measured it?

Anyway, I got some rare CalMaster wheels I wanna keep on my Ghia. They are like 14"x6" (i think, been 20 years) with 185x60x14. But I got some rub. I know looking at narrower tires will help but by itself it won't be enuf.

I really don't wanna be messing with the fenders. I am driving it but its like finger nails on chalk board when it happens. And its not just when parking etc. Like a few days ago at speed around a really sharp corner. Plus the front end could use some work anyway....

So looking at completely assembled 2" narrowed from beam unit from kustom1warehouse.net.

If I went with a 2" narrowed beam with regular disk spindles, am I gonna add like 2 feet to my turning radius? Or 5 feet or what?