Turn Signals, Brake Lights, Red & Amber???

[Dan_Lockwood]

I looked at all the forum titles and none showed anything about wiring etc, so since it is a sand rail and on road buggy, here's where I will start.

Originally I was of the mind set to just do the normal rear lighting, 1157 dual element or LED equivalent etc. BUT... I found this pair of really neat LED tail light strips that have a single row of dual brightness RED LEDS and a single of AMBER LEDS that are sequential/directional. I bought them...

So, now I have to decide if I want to keep the lower dual lights per side 1157 dual brightness tail/brake combos and NOT hook them up as functioning turn signals on the brake brightness side. AND then just use the upper rear hoop mounted dual brightness tail/brake RED LEDS, and the single row of sequential/directional AMBER, for my ONLY turn signals.

I know that if I have a factory vehicle with tail/brake lights in red and an additional amber turn signal light, hooking up a 4-wire trailer harness is impossible without a splitter module that combines the turn signal with the brake light signal AFTER the vehicle just for the trailer.

It seems that I may need something similar, but the reverse of this IF I plan to keep the lower dual tail/brake with turn signal incorporated with the brake light and THEN add the upper LED strip light with the separate amber directional turn signal. If I delete the turn signals from the lower standard type tail/brake lights, adding the upper sequential/directional LED turn signal would not be an issue. But I feel that we cannot have TOO MUCH rear lighting, specially if we're going to be driving on the highways. So, it would be to my benefit to incorporate ALL turn signals, upper and lower during my build, but how would I wire the upper separate amber sequential without back feeding current into the other brake lights???

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Dan

Here's a quick CAD drawing of my concept for the rear tail lighting etc.

[racecougar]

I went with brake and turn signals all around:

https://youtu.be/gohPjCDwJkE

If you're going to do one or the other, I believe you would need to use the lower lamps for your turn signals to be legal.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Thanks Rod,

I found converters last night and I found out they make 3 to 2, which is what you need for a car with the external amber turn signal when going to a flat four on your trailer that uses just the dual element 1157 bulbs. AND, they make a 2 to 3 converter that takes what we would normally use on our buggies and adds a separate brake light wire in addition to the two turn signal wires.

I ordered one and will try to get all the lowers to work as they are, dual element 1157 type and in addition, add the upper separate wiring to the upper sequential /directional lights.

Quick question on your directional lights. Mine has a single wire for each function, tail, brake, and turn sequential. When I apply power to the turn sequential, it automatically repeats with constant 12v power, no flasher required. I see yours seem to repeat the same way. Did you delete the flasher module and just run direct 12v in the turn mode?

I like what you've done on yours. Hopefully mine will be nice and bright also.

Thanks again, Dan

[racecougar]

Nope, I'm running a flasher module; I think I sent you my schematic.

[ORANGECRUSHer]

This subject is right up my alley, but for the life of me, I don't get what your problem is, Dan. Maybe there's just not enough information given. You really lost me with the converter talk. What's so different between the two taillights that it's gonna take any thought? Are you running all the silly original VW relays or is it a regular type setup?

I tried to use all the VW gear in my buggy for years, but it was hard to troubleshoot and added unnecessary complexity. Now I just use bosch relays and a solid state flasher. Never made a difference in how I wired my lights. Or maybe it's just been that long since I've dealt with incandescent bulbs that I'm missing something obvious?

I have two wires to signals and one wire off the brake pressure switch. I even have a 4-way switch.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[Dan_Lockwood]

[racecougar]

Yes, I am running the Kubota switch.

I'd have to go back and look at the schematic I drew up, but IIRC, I did use diodes to prevent feedback.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Thanks Rod. Very nice looking dash.

I found out that when I'm harnessed into the seat, I have a VERY limited reach area. So have to figure out what's important to use while driving and what can wait until I looses up the harness to touch it.

[Dan_Lockwood]

I just received my 2 into 3 tail light brake turn signal converter.

This may help explain what I'm trying to do a bit better.

I just hope that by tapping into the brake/turn signal wires ahead of the converter, that I don't get any feedback etc. It could just work.

Dan

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Sorry for making you explain all that. I guess I was just curious if you had something similar to what an actual beetle came from the factory with? As I said I played with what I had grafted from the donor beetle years ago but the numbering system VW used always drove me crazy. I was going to look at my notes today to see how I ended up redoing my system this last time, but I got distracted by my new baja motor and forgot. I'm trying to think of a way that you would get 'feedback' given what you described. I know if you're using a mechanical flasher, weird resistances can be a problem. I used to use those as well, but switched over to the cheap solid state cubes you can get on amazon. That way you will always get the same flash rate no matter what's hooked up to it. I wonder how a convertor interacts with a mechanical flasher?

See my problem is I don't dedicate anything to memory anymore. Instead I make notes and schematics of what I do. I'm an industrial electrician and there's just no way I can remember all the circuits I work on. When you're accustomed to troubleshooting on a daily basis, once you get eyes on the basic setup, the function is usually pretty self-explanatory. It looks like you got a solution though. Just test it out and see what happens.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[racecougar]

[ORANGECRUSHer]

That's funny you mention Jay's sporting goods. I won't be at the one in Clare, but in a couple weeks I'll be at the one in Gaylord for an electrical code update class.
I've only been to St. Helen that one time and I took 131 up to 55 I think and just made my way across. I wish it was a little closer. I think it was an over three hour trip one way. I don't have a pickup to pull my trailer but instead use an old 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee which handles it okay but it's enough to really make that V8 suck the gas down. Saving up for a big pickup for the wife to drive which I'm hoping will come back to benefit me in this way.
Seems like St. Helen is to the north east side of the state as Silver lake or White Cloud/Baldwin is to my side. Honestly, I like the Baldwin area best so far. There are designated trails, but also a lot of fire roads that can be more fun to explore. You find yourself all the way up to Traverse City on a good day.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc