In a bind: Charging issue

pfrancescutti · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: In a bind: Charging issue

Hi all

I just finished the first leg of a road trip in my '68 beetle. I drove from Victoria BC, down the Pacific coast then inland to Fresno. During the drive I ran into an issue. I'll do my best to describe the symptoms

Twice during the trip, after long stints of driving (>150 miles) the car wouldn't start. It appears the battery has gone flat. Ignition comes on, lights come on but no click or crank while trying to start. The lights go slightly dim when I try to crank and that leads me to the flat battery. The thing is after bump starting it one time and jump starting it the 2nd time, the car seems to be OK. After ~15 minutes of driving it starts fine.

I'm now sitting at my sister's breakfast table trying to figure out what to replace to get me the 1100 miles home. The car is sitting in her driveway with a flat battery for the third time. I'm leaving in 4 days so any expeditious help you could offer would be much appreciated.

Also, anyone in the Fresno area that could recommend where to get the necessary parts once I figure out what I need?

Cheers
Paul

kamesama980 · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:14 am Post subject:

I would lean toward bad solenoid or starter motor itself. If the battery were dead, you'd get taptaptaptaptap of the solenoid or the engine would turn over slowly. How long was the car sitting when it wouldn't start? Overnight? stop for gas? gas+dinner? If you have the means, try whacking the starter with a stick or non-conducting hammer. (don't be timid, the idea is to knock around the internals because it isn't making good contact). IF you do it while someone else is holding the key to "start": set the parking brake, chock the wheels when you crawl underneath, and make sure the car is not in gear! messing up one of those could cut the road trip short.
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"You don't get to blame me for how I fix what you break"
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1994 Pontiac Firebird
2001 BMW R1200C
2003 Subaru Baja

Multi69s · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:14 am Post subject:

Sebring West, they are on Blackstone ave just north of McKinley. I'm in Fresno, PM Sent

http://www.sebringwest.com/parts.htm
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pfrancescutti · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:54 am Post subject:

I've verified the ignition switch is working, moving onto the solenoid. Going to give it a mighty whack and see what happens.

pfrancescutti · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:22 am Post subject:

So whacking the starter solenoid proved fruitful. She fired right up, which is great but:

If it's just the starter solenoid then why did jumping it from a good Samaritan's car work?

Is changing the starter an easy driveway job? I've done it on several water cooled VWs but never on an ACVW.

Where can I find a new starter in Fresno?

Cheers
Paul

Cusser · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:59 am Post subject:

DeathTrap · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject:

Park on a hill.

take out battery

clean all connections

even the crusty ground to body

get underneath and do the same with ground strap(s)

all the grounds to charging system at or around regulator

Luft kühl · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:33 pm Post subject:

You may not even need a new starter. A worn starter bushing might be causing the solenoid plunger to bind.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-301-155

If you do replace the starter (non-autostick) , make sure to install a new bushing when you do.

Cusser · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:49 pm Post subject:

Luft kühl · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject:

If he is able to replace a starter where he is at, why wouldn't he be able to to replace a bushing ?

pfrancescutti · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject:

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm not convinced that the starter is the only problem.

I measured the battery voltage and I have 12.8V static, 11.9 while cranking and 13-13.3 when it's running and revving the engine. From what I understand, that's low for a charging voltage. The generator brushes "look" OK, is there a trick to determining if my problem is the generator or the regulator?

Cheers
Paul

Eric&Barb · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:17 pm Post subject:

Sounds OK. Regulator is only going to put out 14 volts when battery is badly discharged.
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Hedjemunkee · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:58 am Post subject:

ashman40 · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:12 am Post subject:

CarlIseminger · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:43 am Post subject:

Also keep in mind that when you jump start the car, you are getting FULL power. With our older bugs, the wiring and connections get weaker. So even if your battery is "good", you might not be getting all that juice where it needs to. It is a long way from the battery to the ignition switch and then a long way back to the starter selonoid for that power to go.

My starter would "stick" too when it got hot, such as after a long drive. Whacking it with the hammer would do the trick. But around town, it was fine.
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1969 VW Beetle Convertible

kamesama980 · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:59 am Post subject:

What carl said ^
sometimes, when it's still kinda working, the extra amperage available is enough to overcome the partially failed part's shortcomings.

Whacking the starter and then it works could mean a few failure points within: solenoid sticking, solenoid not making good contact (burned spot on contacts, impact knocks it to a clean spot), bad/worn brushes, bad commutator ring, and probably other's I don't know. Without removing it and rebuilding it with new solenoid, bushings, bearings, brushes, cleaning/checking the commutator, etc, the solution is to just replace the whole thing.
_________________
-Russell
"You don't get to blame me for how I fix what you break"
1970 VW Beetle
1994 Pontiac Firebird
2001 BMW R1200C
2003 Subaru Baja

CarlIseminger · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:03 am Post subject:

Yes, I replaced my starter when it happened a couple of times to me.

I also installed a "hard start" relay. This allows all those yards of wire to just carry enough current to operate the relay. And then the relay dumps power right from the battery to the starter selonoid. Every short distance that way.
_________________
1969 VW Beetle Convertible

pfrancescutti · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:02 am Post subject:

Cusser · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:36 pm Post subject:

If that new starter stays working, leave it installed !!!

Also, learn how to push-start your VW, you at least won't get stranded by a bad starter again. Happy drive home.
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