Sealing Wax Red Paint Color - Inconsistent results

[kcyu]

I am restoring a 67 Split Window Kombi bus and have come to an impasse and wondered if I could seek advise from my fellow members. The original color was a pearl white and I had hoped to use a original color combination from previous years - either chestnut brown on sealing wax red, beige grey on sealing wax red or beige grey on titan red. I have surfed the internet finding pictures of the various combinations and find myself at a loss. The sealing wax red appears to vary greatly in colour and shading - appearing orange in a lot of pictures and a darker red in some. The chestnut brown appears black in some pictures and dark brown in others. The other color combinations vary as well. Please advise what accounts for the difference as it makes it extremely difficult to make a decision. I have given the glasurit formula to my painter who has mixed the sealing wax red and it is almost orange in color. With this much variation in color, it makes it almost impossible to choose. Thank you in advance for any assistance that any member is able to offer.

[cru62]

The differences you are seeing on your monitor are caused by a bunch of things. First off your monitor and/or computer will cause them. Then, lighting. Daylight, flourecent or incandescent are all different. Even cloudy or bright sunlight. And time of day.
The age of the paint. Is it OG or repainted. Blah,blah, blah........

Find as good a sample of OG paint as you can and have it color matched by a pro is about the best thing you can do. Good luck! You are entering the twilight zone. Depending on how picky you are it may never be right. I have decent OG SWR on my Kombi. I found a nice OG SWR rear hatch from the same year and the difference is startling.
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[matthew henricks]

Boy does that bring back bad memories. I faced the same problems 15 years ago and in the end picked what i thought was best and went for it. The OG sample is the best bet to have matched. Every show i go to i see all different shades and wish i had done more homework....

I will add that it also matters the environment you paint in. I unfortunately had to sand off my first attempt because it flashed pink on me. Total bummer. Using the same paint on a different day and the color came out better. I am an amateur so i did expect issues but pink???

Also, i think the fourth bus shown above is actually Titan Red. Possibly the 5th too. That started around late 65 if i am not mistaken and is totally different than SWR.

Hope this helped.

Matthew

[volksfahrer.nl]

Picture 4&5 are most likely Titan red so that's a whole different color.

Apart from that; red is the most difficult color to photograph so judging
a color from a pic is near impossible.

As mentioned; a good sample of og paint is the way to go.
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66 panel

[pondoras box]

Having owned a couple of original paint sealing wax red buses there is a huge difference in seeing the color in a photograph versus seeing it in person. It is much warmer looking color in person, I would suggest that you try to find a bus painted in the color you are thinking about and inspect it in person. Even original paint faded over time will have a different look than a freshly painted bus in the correct code color you are thinking about. so beware of getting a duplicate if the color you chose was from original paint that might have faded and been buffed back out.

FWIW stock colors never go out of style but sealing wax red with chestnut brown looks weird on newer buses. But opinions are like butts, everyone has one and you only need to worry about your own.
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Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.

1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda)
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion
Plus a lot of other rusty junk

[Clara]

[EverettB]

[glideking]

I need to make an index.

Discussion is on pages 20
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7268432&highlight=#7268432

and 24
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7564241&highlight=#7564241
Kurt
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"The more I get done the less it looks like I did anything"
1959 Single Cab Restoration"Funky Truck"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...highlight=
1965 21 Window Restoration Thread (From old photos)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
1963 Panelvan build "Tyvanosaurus Wrecks"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8351639#8351639

[velvetgreen]

clara didn't the egg bus get repainted? Anyhow SWR is a hard colour to do and it loves to fade over time which doesn't make a match any easier. Tom did a 58 15 window bus a while back and got good results. I believe his samba ID is tferr

[velvetgreen]

here is tom's old bus

my 0.02- in CDN funds- i agree with clara please leave SWR/CB for year/model correct buses, it looks silly otherwise

[earlywesty]

I believe you are in Ontario. Tom (mentioned above tferr)is also and he took some time getting his glasurit mixed to a very nice hue from an og part. He could likely share what shop mixed his formula and that could be an option for you.

Its your bus but IMHO the SWR/BG would look much closer to original on your late split bus, than say SWR/CB. Titian Red and Pearl White or Beige Grey would be even closer.

Like everyone else has said, SWR varies a lot by panel, exposure to sun, application method, whether it was baked or naturally cured, # of paint layers, polishing method and numerous others. In fact red, in general is the toughest paint to get consistent colour out of.

Good luck.

[kcyu]

Thank you to all members who have offered their thoughts and guidance on this matter. I have considered all points put forth and agree that the SWR/CB may not be appropriate for a latter split and am now leaning towards a color combination from 1967- Beige Gray and Titan Red in pictures 4 and 5. I had thought that the earlier combination of Beige Gray and SWR would be striking but fear that I would still encounter those issues of fading and evolving shades of red.

Has anyone had experience with the Beige Gray and Titan red combination and how it holds up over time?

With profound thanks to all.

[Krustybus]

A friend of mine has a beautiful Titian red 67. I don't know your timeline for paint, but he's usually at the Michigan Vintage show in May. You could see it in person. I could get you in touch with him if you'd like.
_________________
Tim

[BarryL]

Dave Cormack's wife showed her Titian bus at SV2s Familianfest year after year. It won every year to the point everyone asked them not to enter it anymore. Any paint depends on how you store and maintain it. Some more elaborate coatings will survive better with less protection. But even titian chalk with dried buttermilk would last a long time if kept hermetically sealed except for show.

[delx23]

[kcyu]

I have received and taken the advise of fellow members and selected a different color combination than originally considered. Due to the inconsistencies of SWR, I have selected a more period correct Beige Gray with Titan Red for my 67 split.

I took the paint codes from VW and their crossed referenced counterparts - PPG, Dupont, and RM BASF to my painter to mix up samples. Much to my dismay, although the Titan Red was close to the numerous pictures I researched on the internet - the Beige Gray was shockingly darker, almost a cafe latte in color. It did not resemble any of the light beige grays that I had encountered nor pictures 4 and 5 on my initial post.

I am perplexed as to the variation and feel hesitant in proceeding further. Please find attached a picture of the color combination as revealed by my research and the mixed color swatches by the painter.

[Clara]

[earlywesty]

[earlywesty]

[kcyu]

Regrettably, I do not have an OG piece and have been unable to source one with the Beige Gray color. The picture in my most recent post was a printed copy of picture #4 in my original post, that I had brought down to my painter as a source of reference. After reviewing all the helpful responses that I have received, it seems that most of the pictures of the Beige/Gray - Titan Red combination I have researched support picture # 4 in my original post. It appears to my eye to be predominantly gray with a hint of beige. I have sent the pictures to my painter and have asked him to use the pictures as a reference when mixing the paint.

I have attached a sample of pictures that I have encountered on the web.
With thanks.