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hedmanbr Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2019 Posts: 6 Location: CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:57 pm Post subject: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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Has anyone installed both the engine and transaxle together as a single unit? Is it easier that way. I have both out for rebuilds and was wondering. It would certainly be easier to mate the two outside of the car, but not sure how bad it will make the install to have a single unit that big and heavy. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51182 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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Depends on the vehicle, which kind are you asking about? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31396 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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hedmanbr wrote: |
Has anyone installed both the engine and transaxle together as a single unit? Is it easier that way. I have both out for rebuilds and was wondering. |
I've always done them separately.
hedmanbr wrote: |
It would certainly be easier to mate the two outside of the car, but not sure how bad it will make the install to have a single unit that big and heavy. |
"Difficulties" to mate the engine with the transmission are overblown in my experience (maybe 75 installs, 95% working alone). _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76977 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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In a Bus... yes.
In a Beetle... no. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12762 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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^^^ This! ^^^
It may also work in the late type 3 with the moustache bar and the 411/412s. It won’t work in a Beetle. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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b-man Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 500 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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Unless it’s a vehicle with IRS suspension and no frame horns it would not make any sense.
Any swing axle vehicle definitely not.
A vehicle with IRS and frame horns that mount the transaxle you’re just making the job much more difficult, dumb idea. _________________ 1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle |
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94touring Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2020 Posts: 313 Location: Oklahoma - OK
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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The only "all in one" job I've done was in my bus when I needed to swap a nose cone out. Rather than pull the motor and transaxle I just slid it all back as one unit about 4 inches to swap it out. Otherwise not so sure I would want to install them as one heavy and bulky unit. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21521 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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oprn wrote: |
^^^ This! ^^^
It may also work in the late type 3 with the moustache bar and the 411/412s. It won’t work in a Beetle. |
I can attest to the fact that it's significantly easier to do as a complete unit in a 411 or 412. This is because these cars have three point mounting for the drivetrain package (technically two point and a floating bump stop) that requires significant upwards movement only after achieving inward movement from the rear.
Yes, the type 3 is enough similar that doing it as a unit is also a little bit easier. Ray |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6035 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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VWporscheGT3 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006 Posts: 2076 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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oprn wrote: |
^^^ This! ^^^
It may also work in the late type 3 with the moustache bar and the 411/412s. It won’t work in a Beetle. |
This was always the prefered method when running the IRS housing without frame horns. now that i have horns with irs mounts it makes more sense to remove engine only _________________ Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6035 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12762 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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On the Beetle it really boils down to two issues. The first is that there is not really enough room to remove the two bolts in the frame horns to separate the rear mount saddle from the frame horns. Then if you leave the saddle in place and unbolt the rear transaxle mounts you cannot move the engine/transaxle assembly far enough back to drop out before it hits the rear body apron.
At least that is the way I remember it from way back then. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3823 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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I’ll share my Ghia experience but it involved removing the engine and transmission as a unit.
I had a problem where the engine would not separate from the trans. Tried every prybar I had and would not pop out. Decided to try and disassemble the engine while in the car. Managed to get the fan shroud, tins and oil cooler off but the heads were a no go. So someone suggested removing both the engine and transaxle as a unit. Worth a shot.
IRS transaxle so disconnected the CVs, cable, cradle bolts and nose cone mount.
Pulled it rearward but once loose discovered the CV flanges don’t drop out. Had to muscle the unit up with the engine side high and pull it to the rear until the flanges cleared then push everything forward for the engine to clear the rear apron.
So I will say no. Absolutely easier to install and remove separately.
Eventually found my flywheel had grabbed onto one of the transaxle mount nuts and wouldn’t let go.
Lesson learned. Don’t use nyloc nuts on your transaxle mounts.
_________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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hedmanbr Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2019 Posts: 6 Location: CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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Thanks everyone for such quick replies. The vehicle is a 65 bug so It sounds like it is not a good idea. I'll just have to install them separately. |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3557 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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An IRS beetle wouldn’t be bad…swingaxle forget about it |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76977 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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txoval wrote: |
An IRS beetle wouldn’t be bad…swingaxle forget about it |
On a late model Beetle with IRS, the transaxle will not drop between the framhorns. It has to be slid back till the IRS flanges clear the horns. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12762 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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jeffrey8164 wins this debate! He has just been there and done that! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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b-man Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 500 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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oprn wrote: |
jeffrey8164 wins this debate! He has just been there and done that! |
He removed it as a unit because he was fucked and had no other choice but to muscle it out as a unit, after stripping the alternator and tin off the engine.
He surely didn’t consider installing them back in the car as an assembly after struggling with the unfortunate need to remove them as a unit. _________________ 1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle |
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b-man Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 500 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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txoval wrote: |
An IRS beetle wouldn’t be bad…swingaxle forget about it |
It wouldn’t be bad at all.
It would be worse than bad. It would be a horrible choice to attempt that and would make absolutely no sense. _________________ 1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12762 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine and transaxle as one unit |
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b-man wrote: |
oprn wrote: |
jeffrey8164 wins this debate! He has just been there and done that! |
He removed it as a unit because he was fucked and had no other choice but to muscle it out as a unit, after stripping the alternator and tin off the engine.
He surely didn’t consider installing them back in the car as an assembly after struggling with the unfortunate need to remove them as a unit. |
Exactly!!! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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