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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:41 am Post subject: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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Finally got to the point where I could start my new engine this last weekend. Long story short, 1 & 2 run great, 3 & 4 have low compression. I noticed this trying to adjust the idle jets on that side had made no change in how the engine sounded.
At first I thought maybe I left a paper towel in the intake, but there was nothing in there but a puddle of gas. I also thought maybe it was the zero valve clearance, but changing to 0.005" didn't help.
The only thing I can imagine is the pushrod tubes.
I got the SS tubes from CB and they are a lot stiffer than stock. I don't think torquing the head nuts was enough to overcome that stiffness. I was aware of this when I was putting it together but I thought I had gotten the head to seat.
Has anyone experienced this?
I'm gonna try to retorque the head and if that doesn't get it that side will need to come a apart again. I'm sure this means all the pushrods will probably be too long. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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Don Jones Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2020 Posts: 200 Location: Makaha, Hawaii
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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I use the scat spring loaded tubes as they can expand and retract as needed. Been running them over 3 years and never a leak from them.
I torque the heads down first and then slip the scat tubes in, this way i know the tubes did not hamper the head torque. |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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Don Jones wrote: |
I use the scat spring loaded tubes as they can expand and retract as needed. Been running them over 3 years and never a leak from them.
I torque the heads down first and then slip the scat tubes in, this way i know the tubes did not hamper the head torque. |
Yeah I get a lot of people telling me to just stick with the stock ones as well. What fun is that. I think I had those Scat spring loaded types on an engine that I ran in the first iteration of my woodsbuggy. I didn't have the same experience. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12825 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
Don Jones wrote: |
I use the scat spring loaded tubes as they can expand and retract as needed. Been running them over 3 years and never a leak from them.
I torque the heads down first and then slip the scat tubes in, this way i know the tubes did not hamper the head torque. |
Yeah I get a lot of people telling me to just stick with the stock ones as well. What fun is that. I think I had those Scat spring loaded types on an engine that I ran in the first iteration of my woodsbuggy. I didn't have the same experience. |
I guess I am just too old to understand why guys keep trying to fix stuff that ain't broken! I have always re-used the stock tubes and only had one stock tube give me trouble, it had a crack. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6035 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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Sounds bit like my recent story. My 2.0 914 engine started shacking very bad and then lost alot of power . And at times backfire. It starts fine.
I had Chris Vallones Classic VW Bug shop check it.
Plugs are new all fired fine. Distributor was fine, etc ..... Then they said 1 and 2 carb was dead. My 3 and 4 exhaust pipes were hot, 1 and 2 cold. Used started fluid, nothing.
I have duel Dells 36. Going to send them to Rich Hunt in Calif. _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Scrapefest Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 35
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
The only thing I can imagine is the pushrod tubes.
I got the SS tubes from CB and they are a lot stiffer than stock. I don't think torquing the head nuts was enough to overcome that stiffness. I was aware of this when I was putting it together but I thought I had gotten the head to seat.
Has anyone experienced this?
. |
Yes I experienced this when I built an engine for a friend who supplied the ss push rod tubes.
I simply loosened the head and retorqued it, starting with the lower studs to make sure the head was seated on the barrels correctly. |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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Scrapefest wrote: |
ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
The only thing I can imagine is the pushrod tubes.
I got the SS tubes from CB and they are a lot stiffer than stock. I don't think torquing the head nuts was enough to overcome that stiffness. I was aware of this when I was putting it together but I thought I had gotten the head to seat.
Has anyone experienced this?
. |
Yes I experienced this when I built an engine for a friend who supplied the ss push rod tubes.
I simply loosened the head and retorqued it, starting with the lower studs to make sure the head was seated on the barrels correctly. |
Thanks for sharing this! Now I can't wait to get home and give it a try. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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nextgen wrote: |
Sounds bit like my recent story. My 2.0 914 engine started shacking very bad and then lost alot of power . And at times backfire. It starts fine.
I had Chris Vallones Classic VW Bug shop check it.
Plugs are new all fired fine. Distributor was fine, etc ..... Then they said 1 and 2 carb was dead. My 3 and 4 exhaust pipes were hot, 1 and 2 cold. Used started fluid, nothing.
I have duel Dells 36. Going to send them to Rich Hunt in Calif. |
Yeah, at one point I got out the laser thermometer and found the 3/4 headers were around 310F and the 1/2 were in the one hundreds. My snail on the 3/4 side read 7 while on the 1/2 side was 2.5ish. I practically had no air moving through the carbs and why would I if it's easier to just go under the head.. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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RLFD213 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 337
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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Since it’s a 1 sided issue, check the jets on the carb and make sure non are clogged, check the float level and make sure that isn’t adjusted too high. Do a compression check and also make sure the spark plug wires aren’t switched or not attached |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1252 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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In the hundreds is some firing at least.
How sure are you that the carbs are balanced?
I think your head would need to be practically falling off before that presented an easier path than a wide open valve. |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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Zed999 wrote: |
In the hundreds is some firing at least.
How sure are you that the carbs are balanced?
I think your head would need to be practically falling off before that presented an easier path than a wide open valve. |
The valve may be open but not the butterfly.
All things mentioned were checked. There was hardly any flow through the carburetors while running as evidenced by the snail reading during balancing. The puddle of gas in the head intake further proof. Not to mention I had all winter to disassemble those carbs and give them the treatment.
98% It's the head seal. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9828 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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The CB SS Pushrod tubes 1567 and 1559 appear to have a windage end on them.
The longer end should be inserted toward the case. If you install them toward the head. You can get some stand off when torqueing the head.
60psi on a fresh engine? Somethings up.
If you have an AFR gauge, you should be able to see it lean out when applying the throttle when the heads aren't sealed to the cylinder tops. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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storm Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2008 Posts: 299 Location: Juneau, Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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My 2110 did not start also. Apparently I was using #3 on the distributor as #1 to fire. My cb Magaspark disse has no slit on the distributor edge like stock.
I just switch to #1 and it started right up.
I had some pushrod tubes from Scat and they leaked all over the place. They are junk. _________________ always ready to learn and give advice |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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yep 1567 is what I have. They are definitely different. One sticky widget is they have a whole different seal kit that you have to purchase separately. All it is is what looks like a standard bottom seal and an O-ring for the top. Well, I didn't realize this until build day so I came up with my own O-ring and used stock bottom seals. This just might be where MY problem started. Maybe the seal CB uses for the bottom is just a tad shorter than the one I got in my Ehlring kit.
Details, details. Get me everytime. Good thing I don't do this for a living. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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storm wrote: |
My 2110 did not start also. Apparently I was using #3 on the distributor as #1 to fire. My cb Magaspark disse has no slit on the distributor edge like stock.
I just switch to #1 and it started right up.
I had some pushrod tubes from Scat and they leaked all over the place. They are junk. |
Yes, I also had serious distributor issues before I could even get the engine started the first time.
See, I did not get the Dizzy drive gear installed oriented in the right direction. The problem with my gear is that once it's in the case, you're not getting it out. It does not come out of the hole in the case. It's like it want to take it's own path that about a thousandth to the right. After realizing that I wasn't going to get it started by just spinning the distributor around or re-arranging plug wires, I spent probably three hours carefully sanding the hole and using a bearing puller to try to get the drive gear out. Even then I still did not get it out. I only got it up that it cleared the crank gear enough to be able to spin to the right position.
When I had the case apart I should have cleared that out _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6035 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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Well there wasn't anything to be gained by checking torque on the heads. At first I was going to torque it just a smudge more but i decided to just take the head off and have a look. I didn't see anything obvious leaving my to believe the tubes just didn't have the give i need. Tomorrow I'm taking a trip to appletree to get some standard tubes and give it another try with those. If I don't get compression then I'm not sure what to do. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3875 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 5:56 am Post subject: Re: My 2110 startup didn't go well |
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I would've just done a leakdown test, usually you can hear where such drastic leakage is occurring. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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