TheSamba.com :: View topic - rack and pinion kit pics for ghias and beetles

Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:31 am

so...is this a kit that is available? from where and how much?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:18 am

Stupid question, but what is the advantage of a rack and pinion over

a stock gear box?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:20 am

58Dub wrote: so...is this a kit that is available? from where and how much?

I'm guessing ebay from the pics, but can't find it listed...

Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:19 am

hpw wrote: Stupid question, but what is the advantage of a rack and pinion over

a stock gear box?
The equal-length tie rods should make the steering geometry symmetrical. And from the picture, it comes with it's own gear-box. Not a worm-and-sector like the stock one.

Looks interesting.

Come on vwairheads, spill it! :D

Max

Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:12 am

Max Welton wrote:

Come on vwairheads, spill it! :D

In the meantime take a look at this -

http://www.red9design.co.uk/wishbones.htm

:wink:

Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:14 am

Almost looks like a rack from a fox

Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:02 am

Joval wrote: Max Welton wrote:

Come on vwairheads, spill it! :D

In the meantime take a look at this -

http://www.red9design.co.uk/wishbones.htm

:wink:

RHD.

Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:32 pm

$1888 US - ouch!

Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:10 pm

LHD for $3k?

http://www.eyeball-engineering.net/a-arm.html

Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:41 am

58Dub wrote: so...is this a kit that is available? from where and how much?

here it is http://www.classic-centrum.de/Kaefer_Lenkung_1.htm :lol:

Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:13 am

hpw wrote: Stupid question, but what is the advantage of a rack and pinion over a stock gear box?
The play on a stock VW steering box can be adjusted so that it is tight without slop when the wheels are straight ahead. However, as soon as you turn the wheels in either direction, the play increases significantly, getting worse as you turn the steering wheel further. It's a characteristic of the type of steering gearbox that VW uses.

The play, in a rack and pinion steering gearbox in good condition, DOESN'T change as you turn the steering wheel. It's much more precise.

Also, when set up correctly, you can use equal length tie rods with a Rack and Pinion that reduce bump steer. Bump steer is a condition caused by unequal length tie rods when the direction of steering changes when your wheels go up or down. Longer tie rods also reduce bump steer.

The standard Beetle has unequal length tie rods.

The Super Beetle has long equal length tie rods, but it also has an extra idler arm, and the bushing in the idler arm is notorious for failing quickly.

The rack and pinion setup only uses a total of 2 ball joints per side, also minimizing play.

Scott Novak

Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:52 am

OK...enough with the suspence.

What is that rack from?

Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:11 pm

CBDZ_CBDZ wrote: OK...enough with the suspence.

What is that rack from?

thats the problem but someone posted in grmanlook.com that it is the same rack and pinion from polo mk1,2,3, 86c, and audi 50. I think you can fabricate the superbeetle rack and pinion aswell because the tierods are mounted on the center.

Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:43 am

Scott Novak wrote: Bump steer is a condition caused by unequal length tie rods
Not true.
Bump steer is caused by short tie rods. The fact they are different doesn't make bump steer happen. The short tie rod on the left side of a LHD Beetle is what causes bump steer. Narrow the beam, you make the problem worse.
The suspension above by red9design is CRAP. Look at those short tie rods on BOTH sides. They've taken the WORST characteristic of a Beetle suspension and DOUBLED it.

Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:03 am

2x bruce incorrect tie rod angles get worse when narrowing is done; the narrower you go the further out of sink things get!!! Ive been told that modifying the pitman arm can help fix this!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=711188

Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:00 am

Scott Novak wrote: Bump steer is a condition caused by unequal length tie rods
Bruce wrote: Not true.
Bump steer is caused by short tie rods. The fact they are different doesn't make bump steer happen.
Actually, unequal length tie rods can cause bump steer, and shorter tie rods can make bump steer worse in some cases. In other cases, longer tie rods can CAUSE bump steer.

With a stock standard Beetle, if you hit a bump that moves both wheels upward the same distance and you have unequal length tie rods, the toe in or toe out on one wheel would be different than the toe in or toe out on the other wheel and the vehicle will be pulled to one side.

If the tie rods were equal length and both wheels moved upward the same distance, no matter what the length of the tie rod, both wheels would toe in or out by the same amount it would NOT create bump steer.

If you hit a bump with one wheel only, it will toe in or out and it will also pull the vehicle to one side. The shorter the tie rod, the worse the bump steer. There will ALWAY be some bump steer with it's geometry design.

However, if you had a double wishbone suspension with equal length upper and lower arms, and the short tie rods were also the same length as the wishbones and the tie rods were at the correct height, you would have ZERO bump steer, while the wheels were in the straight ahead position. A longer tie rod would actually CAUSE the bump steer.

How the length of the tie rod affects the bump steer depends on the type of suspension geometry.

Scott Novak

Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:08 am

58Dub wrote: so...is this a kit that is available? from where and how much?
vwairheads wrote: here it is http://www.classic-centrum.de/Kaefer_Lenkung_1.htm
I don't suppose that the stock gas tank will fit with this rack and pinion modification, or will it?

Scott Novak

Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:23 am

Scott Novak wrote: 58Dub wrote: so...is this a kit that is available? from where and how much?
vwairheads wrote: here it is http://www.classic-centrum.de/Kaefer_Lenkung_1.htm
I don't suppose that the stock gas tank will fit with this rack and pinion modification, or will it?

Scott Novak

I have no idea but you ca always find away to fit :) but for those people where asking what kind of rack and pinion is it, its from vw polo mk1,2,3 86c, and vw derby. take a look click here http://cgi.ebay.de/LENKGETRIEBE-OHNE-SERVO-VW-POLO...72%3A1229| and this http://cgi.ebay.de/LENKGETRIEBE-VW-POLO-86C-1-1-33...otohosting

Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:30 am

but I think the rack and pinion from a super beetle can be made also :wink:
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