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Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:07 pm

The DSR's are a much nicer wheel.....IMO. If I bought a set, I would be happy to send Dave an extra 5% . It is not right that his design was ripped off without compensation. :evil: The hobby needs to look after its own.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:12 am

53 0val wrote: If I bought a set, I would be happy to send Dave an extra 5% . It is not right that his design was ripped off without compensation.
Thanks, Bob, that's pretty much what I was trying to get at. I'm sure Randee will sell plenty of the "authorized" wheels, and I know that the DSRs have been pretty tough to get here in the States. If you prefer the DSR's to the RDW's, fine, no problem. I like Bob's way of looking at it, if the DSR guys would at least acknowledge where their idea came from, and maybe even send Dave Deal some small amount of the profit after the fact, I would shut right the hell up. That does NOT mean, however, I would be condoning HOW they made the wheel without "authorization"... :evil:

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:18 pm

now were talking reparations here? :D

no seriously that's a screwed up thing to do but unfortunately its not the first VW related item and I would bet its not be the last to be repop'ed like that

I have to ask do you think Flat 4 or MSW or American Eagle is sending a monthly check to Porsche for the knock of fuchs wheels?

or are any of these Companies ( insert ACME wheel company name here ) looking up the next of kin to pony up with royalties for all the Speedwell BRM's that have been repop'ed?

I can only wonder in what numbers those wheels were copied and sold...

Anthony / ISP WEST

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:56 pm

PIMPPRIDE wrote: now were talking reparations here? :D

no seriously that's a screwed up thing to do but unfortunately its not the first VW related item and I would bet its not be the last to be repop'ed like that

I have to ask do you think Flat 4 or MSW or American Eagle is sending a monthly check to Porsche for the knock of fuchs wheels?

or are any of these Companies ( insert ACME wheel company name here ) looking up the next of kin to pony up with royalties for all the Speedwell BRM's that have been repop'ed?

I can only wonder in what numbers those wheels were copied and sold...

Anthony / ISP WEST

People who rip-off original designs are no better than thieves. No talent copy cats whose sole purpose is to put money in their own pockets. Buying reproduction VW products should be against the law. I'm not talking about rubber, glass or trim items......but rather the quality accessories produced for VW or by VW. I know you sell reproductions Anthony, but most of what you sell is not the quality of a Petri horn ring or a Kienzle clock. If someone is stupid enough to buy these things and not think that people will see them for the faker they are............they are sorely mistaken and blinded by self-delusion.

Dave has every right to be upset with these charlatans as would anyone who took a personal interest in this hobby. We can continue to "fake" out our cars and forever be considered the "low life" of the car culture, or we can do the right thing and honestly present our cars for the betterment of the entire hobby.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:49 am

I agree with you that Dave has every right to be upset and take action as he is...

and for me every accessory on my personal car is original, but that is my preference...

but without the availability of reproductions we wouldn't have a VW aftermarket like we do, a market that supports our hobby or profession on many levels

Anthony / ISP WEST

Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:07 am

They have things called patents just for things like this. Without one, it's an open game with whoever can sell it cheapest usually coming out on top.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:29 pm

Ace, yes, they do have patents.
HOWEVER, I know that Dave Deal, at the time, had no intention of going into business making that wheel; he has become quite successful writing books and making cartoons for some of the biggest names in the industry, including Ford and GM, to make himself even busier by trying to make that wheel.
However, Randee Pickton, of Randar Wheels, made the effort, contacted me, I gave him Mr. Deal's contact info, and Randee also made sure that I called Dave after he and Randee met, to make absolutely certain that Dave was being treated fairly. What the final "Deal" (no pun intended) was, I have no idea, I don't need to know, as long as my friend was content, which, from his own account, he is.

Randee did it right.

I wish I could say the same about the makers of the DSR, but I cannot.

Anthony, look at it this way.. Suppose you (or ISP West) came out with a stand-alone product, and IMMEDIATELY, someone knocked it off, made an "unauthorized"" version, and began selling it in the very same marketplace, that you had your "original" product... you mean to tell me you (or ISP West) wouldn't be at least a "little" ticked off?
If somebody did that to you, Anthony, I would be outraged, as well. You and I, although we don't know each other that well, know each other well enough that I can call you a friend, and you betcha, I would be spouting off at the mouth, if that had happened to you.
They ARE a nice wheel, I saw some at the last Bad Camberg, and paid paid VERY close attention to them, even to the point of lying on my back (insert beached whale joke here) and looking at the inside of the wheel. They made them well, that's for sure. I just don't think they made them the right way. It would have been easy enough for them to contact Dave Deal, his contact info is right on the internet, and Dave probably would have given his blessing to them, that's just the kind of guy that he is. But they didn't, and THAT is what I have the problem with.
Anthony, you wonder how many wheels copies have been sold? I don't know, but no matter how many wheels have been copied and sold, without the original manufacturer's (or designer's) permission, does that make it morally right to have done so?
Some of you will understand, and I guess some of you never will, unless it happens to you personally.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:45 pm

It has nothing to do with patents. It has everything to do with ethics. Companies like DSR make excellent products, but they lack ethical business practices. They obviously see no problem in ripping off someone else's design and making money on it. They are the pariahs of originality and honesty and this hobby supports several individuals that do the same thing with accessories on a smaller scale. :wink:

Sat May 19, 2007 4:16 pm

UPDATE: Please see Dave Deal's post below, it looks like this issue has been resolved with Randar. Sorry for the confusion :D

I realize this is an older thread, but I ran across it doing a search for a Dave Deal related subject ("Deal's Wheels" models) and ran across this. I just wanted to mention that I'm also a friend of Dave Deal's, and to set the record straight he did NOT receive ANY compensation from Randar.

Sat May 19, 2007 6:21 pm

Tres, I have PM'ed you, and would ask you to please, e-mail me right away. If, in fact, Dave is being ripped off again, just like our mutual good friend Bruce Meyers, then, I have a few phone calls to make, and possibly a trip down to SoCal.
I would very much like to get to the bottom of this.
Please, instead of using up more bandwidth here, e-mail me privately, you have all my contact info in my Private Message to you.

Sun May 20, 2007 7:05 am

Tres Wright wrote: I realize this is an older thread, but I ran across it doing a search for a Dave Deal related subject ("Deal's Wheels" models) and ran across this. I just wanted to mention that I'm also a friend of Dave Deal's, and to set the record straight he did NOT receive ANY compensation from Randar. Promises were made, but never fulfilled. So to date TWO companies have ripped off Deal's wheel design. All the negative comments thrown at the German company apply equally to Randar as well.

WTF :shock:

Sun May 20, 2007 9:50 am

Just to set the record straight, my good friend Tres Wright posted a comment about Randar Wheels that is not quite accurate. He based it on something I stated to him in an e-mail. At the time, I hadn't heard from Randee for a while and couldn't get hold of him by phone. I said " no Randee, no royalty..." So Tres is totally vindicated, and he was really looking after my best interests. Thank you Tres.

And Thanks to Dave Cormack for his defense of my design, and friendship.

While what Tres posted was technically true at that moment, based on my words to him...Randee of RANDAR WHEELS has my full permission to produce my Iron Cross design wheel, and sell them. We have a deal.
Randee is one of the good guys. The RANDAR version does look better than the kraut rip-off because it is a hand crafted design, following my sculptured work, and it is The Real Deal after all.

The Germans, Boris and Doris, are the bad guys....That's what I call people who steal from you----counterfit Rip-offs.

If you purchase a set of UNAUTHORIZED wheels from the Huns, my sincere and personal wish for you is that you spin a main bearing at the next big VW event, far from home.

Dave Deal

Sun May 20, 2007 10:03 am

Thanks, Dave, I am sure it is appeciated, that you would take the time to come to our little corner of the VW world, to set the record straight.
"The Day Leviathan Died" is wonderful reading, and I still peruse it time after time, and glean some more info from it every time I do.
When you put some RDW's on one of our mutual friend Bruce Meyer's cars, please, when you see him, bow and scrape, and say "We're Not Worthy!" We're Not Worthy!"... Winnie will laugh, Bruce will get embarrassed, and know precisely who that came from...
Anyway, there has been a lot of Behind-The-Scenes stuff going on with this, I can assure you. I remember how crushed our Nowwegian friend Morten Aase was, when he tried making that wheel the right way, and was in the planning stages, only to find the "unauthorized" wheels on the market, before he had the chance to get his Dave Deal approved wheels off the ground.
Again, thanks for taking the time to put all the naysaying, rumors, and innuendo, to rest.

Sun May 20, 2007 12:20 pm

I sent Dave Deal a link to this thread and as you can see from his post above, things are apparently now smoothed over with Randar which is good to hear! They are certainly some cool looking wheels, makes me want to buy a VW so I could justify getting some of them :wink:

Sun May 20, 2007 2:06 pm

Tres Wright wrote: I sent Dave Deal a link to this thread and as you can see from his post above, things are apparently now smoothed over with Randar which is good to hear! They are certainly some cool looking wheels, makes me want to buy a VW so I could justify getting some of them :wink:

You might have to stand in line, it appears that Randee is having problems....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=195755&highlight=randarwheels+aol

Mon May 21, 2007 9:39 am

So, i'm the only person who doesn't like them i guess.

Tue May 22, 2007 6:52 am

they should make a deep 6 of that wheel. the the center wont stick out soo much

Wed May 23, 2007 5:29 pm

thehecticskeptic wrote: So, i'm the only person who doesn't like them i guess.

Your not alone, I really don't care for them.

Wed May 23, 2007 10:06 pm

vw-in-neptune wrote: they should make a deep 6 of that wheel. the the center wont stick out soo much
Hes kind of right... a wider wheel with a deeper dish (staggered fit) would make them look 1000% better :wink:

Mon May 28, 2007 3:26 pm

The controversial and stolen design: the "Steeiner Rad" meaning "Steiner wheel," or simply DSR, by Boris and Doris in Deutschland is obviously named for a current neo-Nazi inspiration, an Austrian German philosopner of the 30s named Rudolf Steiner. Steiner founded the idea of anthroposophy. He was a participant in meetings of the Tule Geselshaft, in Vienna, a group that Herr Adolf Hitler joined and later changed to the NSDAP or "Nazi" party. I quote:

"Alongside such neo-fascist and Aryan supremacist groups there is also the far right wing of contemporary anthroposophy around the recently deceased Werner Georg Haverbeck, for whom Steiner is of course the primary inspiration."

http://www.stelling.nl/simpos/anthroposophy_criticism_notes.htm

My wheel design was intended to show the relationship of the VW / KDF automobile to its roots in the historic German Iron Cross, certainly NOT as any anti-semitic device. However, by their naming the stolen ( from me ) wheel design "Steiner Rad" it seems this is the hidden agenda of the Germans at DSR. So if you purchase a set from them, realize what you are doing for the world.

Dave Deal

Aurthorized RANDAR Wheels has no such affiliation as cited above.
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