TheSamba.com :: View topic - "What wheels fit?" The ultimate wheel post.

Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:03 pm

Hey friends -

So grateful for this thread, and for Chris/T3 Techniques in particular.
About to drop some considerable coin to replace my whole set + spare, and I want to make sure I've done my research correctly.

I've dinged and scraped too many alloys on various cars over the years to be considered a functional adult. I'm reverting to steel. I'd like to do so without worrying about spacers or longer studs. This is for my 95% stock 2WD '91 Tintop. Here's what I'm thinking:

Mercedes C-Class W203 2001-2005
15x6 ET31
part #203-400-00-02
AND
I want to run 215/75 or 225/70 if possible. Fresh Schwenk springs will precede the new wheels. I'll hit up T3 Techniques for the smaller ball nuts/bolts that I'm pretty sure these wheels require.

Am I missing something? Are my clearances good? Should this have been posted to the lazy/stupid thread?

Thanks in advance

Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:30 am

Another steel wheel option, Go Westy sells a copy of the South African steelies. They are 15x7, ET25

Here's a pic of the GW rims on jimf909 van

https://www.gowesty.com/product/wheels/25241/-steel-wheel-bus-vanagon?v=

I'm not sure what tire size he has on it.

I had 235/70s (front) & 255/70's (rear) on my other van. No issues

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2057784

Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:29 am

tjet wrote: Another steel wheel option, Go Westy sells a copy of the South African steelies. They are 15x7, ET25

Thanks for the response!

Yeah, I had considered those, originally. But I read on this thread somewhere how they've changed dimensions over the years. I like the idea of an OEM wheel I can order anywhere, or maybe find in a junkyard, if/when I need a replacement. And I like the slightly slimmer width.

Also, isn't ET25 just a little pushed out? I trust GW, and they have a lot of my money, but if I've read this thread correctly, the range should be around ET30-ET35ish. Or is that just for 16"?

Good to know the tires should clear. Thanks again!

Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:15 pm

The ET number varies depending on wheel width. The idea is to keep a desired backspace. It's only for width, it doesn't care if it's a 14" rim or a 17" rim.

Original steel 14 x 5.5 ET39, backspace measures 4.79"
Original steel 14 x 6, ET30, backspace measures 4.68"
GW steel rims 15 x 7, ET25, backspace measures 4.98" (copy of original VW SA rim)
MB steel rim, 15 x 6, ET31, backspace measures 4.72"

TrashPanda wrote: Also, isn't ET25 just a little pushed out? I trust GW, and they have a lot of my money, but if I've read this thread correctly, the range should be around ET30-ET35ish. Or is that just for 16"?

Examples on moving around the ET on the same width rim:
a 15 x 7 rim with an ET30 would have a backspace of 5.18" (too close to upper ball joints)
a 15 x 7 rim with an ET35 would have a backspace of 5.38" (you would be hitting the upper ball joints)

So, VW tried to keep the backspace roughly between 4.68" to 4.98" on these vans.

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Offset-to-Backspace.html

Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:50 pm

tjet wrote:
MB steel rim, 15 x 6, ET31, backspace measures 4.72"...

Examples on moving around the ET on the same width rim:
a 15 x 7 rim with an ET30 would have a backspace of 5.18" (too close to upper ball joints)
a 15 x 7 rim with an ET35 would have a backspace of 5.38" (you would be hitting the upper ball joints)

So, VW tried to keep the backspace roughly between 4.68" to 4.98" on these vans.l

THANK YOU!

These are just the clearance figures I was hoping to see. I feel somewhat reassured to pull the trigger on the MB set, now.

I dig your van, BTW.

Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:42 am

Be sure to post some pics. Are you ordering them through a MB dealer?

Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:44 pm

tjet wrote: Be sure to post some pics. Are you ordering them through a MB dealer?

I'll post a few pics, for sure. Might be a little bit. Shocks/springs going in first.

I'll price a couple local dealers in the meantime. As it stands, the cheapest is Pelican Parts at $87.25per with free shipping.

Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:29 am

tjet wrote: Another steel wheel option, Go Westy sells a copy of the South African steelies. They are 15x7, ET25

Here's a pic of the GW rims on jimf909 van

https://www.gowesty.com/product/wheels/25241/-steel-wheel-bus-vanagon?v=

I'm not sure what tire size he has on it.

I had 235/70s (front) & 255/70's (rear) on my other van. No issues

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2057784 The best thing about those is the ability to run the factory hub caps with their install kit. I'm running them myself, hopefully mine will be ready for the road next week. Been off the road since 1988!

Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:31 am

TrashPanda wrote: tjet wrote: Another steel wheel option, Go Westy sells a copy of the South African steelies. They are 15x7, ET25

Thanks for the response!

Yeah, I had considered those, originally. But I read on this thread somewhere how they've changed dimensions over the years. I like the idea of an OEM wheel I can order anywhere, or maybe find in a junkyard, if/when I need a replacement. And I like the slightly slimmer width.

Also, isn't ET25 just a little pushed out? I trust GW, and they have a lot of my money, but if I've read this thread correctly, the range should be around ET30-ET35ish. Or is that just for 16"?

Good to know the tires should clear. Thanks again! I don't remember what the current offset is, but I'm running a set on my '83 and there's no clearance issues at all with 215/75r15. I should even be able to run the Michelin snow cables no problem. ALSO being able to run factory hubcaps sealed the deal for me buying them!

Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:29 pm

MuzzcoVW wrote: TrashPanda wrote: tjet wrote: Another steel wheel option, Go Westy sells a copy of the South African steelies. They are 15x7, ET25

Thanks for the response!

Yeah, I had considered those, originally. But I read on this thread somewhere how they've changed dimensions over the years. I like the idea of an OEM wheel I can order anywhere, or maybe find in a junkyard, if/when I need a replacement. And I like the slightly slimmer width.

Also, isn't ET25 just a little pushed out? I trust GW, and they have a lot of my money, but if I've read this thread correctly, the range should be around ET30-ET35ish. Or is that just for 16"?

Good to know the tires should clear. Thanks again! I don't remember what the current offset is, but I'm running a set on my '83 and there's no clearance issues at all with 215/75r15. I should even be able to run the Michelin snow cables no problem. ALSO being able to run factory hubcaps sealed the deal for me buying them!

Is this it?

Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:24 pm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Mercedes-wheels-15-5...632-2357-0

Some cool old Merc rims, would fit with 5mm spacers and maybe no spacers ?
Spendy maybe to many folks here and way small to me but they'd look pretty good with a refresh and you'd be the only one on your block for sure. Merc star plate lug cover is probably easy to replace with a flat disc of aluminum.

Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:57 pm

Probably not the first entry here with these wheels but i really like the appearance of my van now:
Audi A8 D2 wheels (forged aluminium, 7x16" et42), long studs front and rear and spacers (F: 15mm, R: 20mm) with 225/70r16 Yokohama Geolandar G015 Tires.

Boring for most, exciting for me:
One wheel and tire weighs 19.8 kg, 3.9 kg less than my previous, smaller setup with 215/75r15 Geolandars on the usual 6x15" et30 steel wheel. I also weighed the original hub cap steelies (5.5x14") with 185/80r14 tires: 19.3 kg

The sliding door only clears the rear tire by about 5mm :D
The tires slightly rub on the rear of the front wheel arches when offroading though (wheel alignment is on point). Need to do some trimming ...

Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:10 pm

mxitup wrote: First off, big thanks to Christopher @ T3 for the technical support and hardware.

Wheel Specs:

VW Heritage Wheel (CZ8)

5x112, 17x7, ET43
Center bore 57.1mm

17" Wheel Black: 5C0-601-025-M-AX1
17" Wheel White: 5C0-601-025-G-Y9C
Chrome Center: 5C0-601-149-D-QZQ
Chrome Ring: 5C0-601-157A

Fitment specs:

Bore the centers to 66.56mm
10mm front spacers
18mm rear spacers
(evens track width front/ rear)
Longer rear wheel studs
Longer front wheel bolts
Small ball seat lugs front and rear

Tire specs:

Conti PureContact
225/50R17 98V XL

Those are SOOOOO sexy.

Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:12 pm

Needed new tires for my '86 syncro, and it got way more complicated than I expected. To save people trouble I'll share the best options I found and also where to get the best information.

T3 Technique has a pdf at their site
https://t3technique.com/pages/technical-pages
Super info on the hardware and studs if you go with larger wheels

http://oldbluesblog.com/files/VanagonTireSpecs.pdf
http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/guideline.html

Solid basic info of what is a VW compliant tire, 9% de-rating for passenger tires, what VW delivered OEM, correct tire pressure, etc.

I am surprised GoWesty sells non-compliant Michelin tires (95 load rating), they do not have the passenger tire load rating required by VW, 98 for 2WD and 99 for 4WD. For the most part name brands don't have the load rating. I stuck with compliant tires:

14 inch (stock wheels)
Vans came with 185R14 and 20570R14 tires. The 205R14 are an inch wider than 185R14. 205/70R14 are harder to find with the load rating, but they do exist:

$58 205/70 R14 98T XL BSW GT RADIAL TOURING VP PLUS (Discount Tire). 98 load rating, reinforced sidewall (XL). What's not to like? 98 load rating de-rated 9% is compliant for 2WD but 17 lb shy for Syncro. A passenger car tire, some say that means squishy, but is that true when you get reinforced sidewall? VW delivered Vanagons with 205/70 R14 reinforced sidewall passenger tires.

$108 205/70R14 102/100Q, D (8 Ply) Maxxis Bravo UE-168 (priority Tire). I bought these. Van tires fully compliant for Syncro, the only ones I found that are not the inch narrower 185R14 size.

Yes, you can buy compliant 185R14 tires from bigger brands:
Hankook Vantra 185R14 102R D1 BSW
YOKOHAMA Y356 185R14 101 D1 BSW (a summer tire)
Nokina Cline 185R14C 102/100 S
I didn't go for these because 185R14 is an inch narrower, but they are all truck/van/commercial rated tires that meet VW spec. The 9% de-rating does not apply for these, these are heavy duty tires well over the needed load rating.

Lots of people say you really should go to 15 or 16 inch wheels. Then it gets complicated because you need the right offset, bolt pattern, and might need to change studs or lug nuts. The T3 pdf was good on this. I was tempted and almost bit:

$75 Mercedes steel wheel P/N 203 400 16 02 ET31 7x16, it is a direct bolt on. Google the P/N and it is on sale from various Benz dealers. You need to use small ball lug nuts or bolts.

The GoWesty 16 inch alloy wheels are about $150 each, hard to beat and they come with hardware.

My mechanic told me it is easier to find the load rating in tires with the bigger rims. Not so! The big brands are 95 load rating, well under specification.
Priority Tire has a $82 Milestar WEATHERGUARD AS710 SPORT 215 /60 R16 99H XL BSW that has the load rating. I really wasn't seeing big brand 16 inch tires with stock rolling diameter and a compliant load rating.

Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:17 am

tomtom50, interesting, but it sounds much more like you want to talk about tires than wheels. This is more of a thread about the rims. There is a tire thread about it that you might enjoy?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=584507

Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:01 am

tomtom50 wrote: Needed new tires for my '86 syncro, and it got way more complicated than I expected. To save people trouble I'll share the best options I found and also where to get the best information.

Nice rundown, and welcome! Please follow up on how you like these in different conditions (in the thread that bobbyblack recommends). I don't currently need tires (PO installed Thunderer Ranger R101s), but like you, I prefer to stay within spec rather than open the inevitable can of worms. I've spent more time than I'd like to admit researching the dwindling options.

The Bravos seem to have a similar tread design to the Rangers. If I had a Syncro, I might prefer a more aggressive tread although I've had the Rangers on FS roads with no problem.

Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:10 am

tomtom50 wrote:

Lots of people say you really should go to 15 or 16 inch wheels. Then it gets complicated because you need the right offset, bolt pattern, and might need to change studs or lug nuts.

It' actually pretty straight forward. Just need to look for the correct wheels/bolt pattern. You can use VW/audi wheels but need to enlarge hub bore or many of the Merz wheels will work. You can get all hardware from T3. Or piece together yourself.

The only complicated aspect is probably the rear wheel studs but I didnt find it too complicated. I just installed new studs and spacers from T3.

Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:32 am

These are my hub bore tools.
With the cone shaped thing in the drill chuck (it's 5/8" shank) I push the cone into the back of the hub to center the wheel under the drill and clamp it to the drill table.

Then I reach in and swap out the cone for the cutter.
I go in at the slowest speed with some cutting lube. I go as deep as I need to and still keep the seating for the center cap.
The cutter was an old used one I had re ground to 66.6+mm or so.

You need a drill press with big table and around 10" or so from chuck center to drill column.
I can do an 18" wheel like this.

Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:05 am

Ok so after nearly a year of searching I have found nothing untill today.
Please keep in mind spacers are illegal where I live, it sucks.

https://www.dtm.co.nz/wheel-range/wheel/WEBW-DIE811/DIE8111770511T73

So will these fit? 17x7 et40 on a 2wd 1983 camper?
I'm thinking of lowering 50-70mm also.

Thanks

Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:19 am

Those are cool, I think you can find pictures of them on Vanagons in the gallery.

I think if spacers were illegal I'd just weld them on and clean up the weld and paint the back.