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Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:41 am

Just for a reference starting point to my long journey to horse power, I swung by the Local Honda/Acura Performance shop to put the bug on the dyno. The owner is a customer of mine, and he wanted me to bring it by......now I know it was for their entertainment. :-\ My '67 bug runs a stock trans, and a 1641 with a single 30pict3. Pretty dang close to stock, so I wasn't expecting much. My best two out of three pulls at approx 4300 rpm were as follows:
Max Power 44.61, and Max Torque 68.85
Max Power 44.90, and Max Torque 65.41
FYI..this was done on a Dyno jet roller dyno

I figure I could ditch the crappy chrome that's on the tins, and gain 10 hp..........anything would help LOL. ;D

Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:04 am

now just build a huge engine and race your custoer's pants of! hahahaha

Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:54 am

Matt is right just build a 2276cc engine and wil get more respect from them. Make sure the builder knows what he is doing.

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:14 pm

Oh I plan on it, it's only cubic dollars. LOL

I just did this to have a reference starting point. I'll add my dual Dels, and do it again. Basically, do it as I continue upgrades.

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:26 pm

HAHA, should be good for some laughs later on when you finish. Now I have an idea of a range my 1641 made before I put the 1915 in. Huge difference.

Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:02 pm

What gear did you do it in 3rd or 4th? What octane fuel was in the tank? I would love to see the run file if you could post it.

Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:24 pm

I don't have a scanner, but I have the print out. I ran 87 oct. and the pull was in 3rd gear. I was hoping the guy could e-mail it to me, but he didn't have a clue how to....He's good with Honda's, not so good on the 'puter. :roll:

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:15 pm

Well, I had another dyno session today....

I started with a Max HP of 44.61 and a Max Torque of 68.9 ft lbs. This was with a "Euro-Tuck" header/muffler system, and a single Solex 30 Pict 3 carb.....on a DP 1641.

Since then, I have added a set of dual 40mm Dellorto's, and a new 1-3/8" header with a fat boy style muffler from Serrano's.

After a few pulls to get a decent reading, and a major timing adjustment I have much greater results. When I started, my static timing was at about 30 deg., with a full adv. at 50ish deg. :cry:
I set the static down to 8 deg., for a max full adv. of 28. With the help of the dyno, we were able to get the timing down lower w/o losing any power. That can only mean good things.

I've now established a Max HP of 57.44, and a Max Torque of 77.8 ft lbs. Keep in mind this is all at the wheels. I'm not real sure where the crank reading would fall......some say 15%-25% higher for a crank HP reading. Who knows, all I know is this little motor hauls the mail. It's a kick to drive! I remember my 1776 I had yrs. ago with 40 Dells, 041 heads and a 110 cam made only 61hp at the wheels in my old '67 sedan. Not too shabby for the 1641 I don't think. 8)

Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:59 pm

How long haveyou been driving with 30 degree static timing :shock:

Must have been pinging its ass off.

You didant say on either at what rpm the TQ and HP peeks are, did they move up the rpm scale with the dells and exhaust?

Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:48 am

What brand and type of dyno are you using? Just curious, is it an inertia dyno or variable load?

Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:52 am

This is a good thread!

Taking readings as you make changes, on the same car/engine and same dyno. Thanks for sharing your findings.

Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:26 am

krusher wrote: How long haveyou been driving with 30 degree static timing :shock:

Must have been pinging its ass off.

You didant say on either at what rpm the TQ and HP peeks are, did they move up the rpm scale with the dells and exhaust?

Are you sure about the timing? I'm stunned you could even get the damn thing started.

Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:08 am

I like this. Before and Afters on the dyno telling you how much power a given change makes. A very good idea.

-matt

Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Rowroy wrote: krusher wrote: How long haveyou been driving with 30 degree static timing :shock:

Must have been pinging its ass off.

You didant say on either at what rpm the TQ and HP peeks are, did they move up the rpm scale with the dells and exhaust?

Are you sure about the timing? I'm stunned you could even get the damn thing started.

I was running 92 oct as per the owner's 'instructions'. I ran 87 once and it did ping under high load, hills, full throttle getting on the freeway, etc... All of these readings were taken right at about 5k. As soon as I can get my dyno sheet scanned, I'll post it up so you can see where the curves are. My max hp was right around 3250-3500 RPM. I calculated this out last night, it's almost the same power to weight ration as my 2002 GMC Sierra has with a 5.3 rated at 285hp. The VW is a bit lower ratio, but the power to weight ratio is what really matters. It doesn't take much power to push a little pop can on wheels around. :wink:

I'd like to throw on a set of 1.4:1 ratio rocker to see what kind of a gain I can get with only adding those. We're also going to do a full tune for power session by adjusting the carbs for perfection. I just need to plan a full day for that kind of crap. It's time consuming. This was all done on a DynoJet chassis/roller dyno.

Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:37 am

I want to know where you get all this dyno time. Excellent thread, thanks, and keep going.

Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:50 pm

30% gain is huge!

Good job man. 8)

Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:57 pm

I'd say this is proof (like we needed it) that VW engines are severely under carburated from the factory. In stock form, you can darn near run them all out, all day long.

Changing the program a bit as I have, doesn't allow for such luxuries as all out, all day. Now were starting to make some power. :wink:

How do I find such time for the dyno? It's not taking that long. The dyno is about 10 minutes from my office....I was there about two hours, an hour of which was trying to get his pc to recognize the input from his dyno. All the 500+ hp cars that ceom through his shop for dyno sessions have shaken his pc almost to death. :lol: Glad I wasn't responsible for that. Best of all......my dyno sessions are free! I'm doing some hardline tube work for his Hhon-duh race car for his No2 set up on it. All SS hardlines........Mmmmm, Make's my mouth water. :wink:

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:03 am

As you mentioned adding the 1.4 rockers I though i would model that on desktop dyno. This boosts the lift from 0.334 up to 0.425

If I just add that to the stock 1600, the peek hp goes from 50hp up to 54hp.
But more interestingly it gains quite a spread of TQ from 3500 to 5000 as much as 9ftlbs.

(how accurate desktop dyno is I dont know)
:?

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:29 am

"As you mentioned adding the 1.4 rockers I though i would model that on desktop dyno. This boosts the lift from 0.334 up to 0.425

If I just add that to the stock 1600, the peek hp goes from 50hp up to 54hp.
But more interestingly it gains quite a spread of TQ from 3500 to 5000 as much as 9ftlbs.

(how accurate desktop dyno is I dont know) "

I don't know either, but it's tough to get desktop dyno to model the stock vw's intake parameters since my version won't allow lower than 100 cfm for air flow value. What type of intake style do you use when modeling? The engines I try to model on my Desktop dyno seem to be a bit optimistic compared to what real-world engines produce when actually dynoed.

I noticed a torque difference when I removed my 1.4's from my stock engine.

Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:58 am

What/where is this "Desk Top Dyno" you speak of????????? 8)