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  View original topic: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 60, 61, 62  Next
Arnolds64 Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:15 am

Kommercial wrote: Everytime this topic comes up I am reminded of an interesting tag that comes with all transmissions from -
German Transaxle of America, formerly Volkstrans
61560 American Lane
Bend, OR 97702

"CAUTION! This trans must be filled with only 80 or 90 weight GL-4 Rated
oil, NOT GL-5, NOT GL-6, NOT GL-3-4-5, NOT GL 4-5-6! Use of any oil
other than straight GL-4 voids the warranty on the synchronizers! GL-4
oil is available from Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, and many other
manufacturers. Do not be talked out of GL-4 by your local supplier who
may not have it! VW and Audi synchros were designed for GL-4 oil, and
any use of GL-5 will cause hard shifting and possibly damage to the
unit. Really! Trust us on this one.

We also highly recommend Redline MT-90 synthetic for easier shifting.
This is the only oil other than the correct GL-4 that will not void the
warranty on the trans."

AMEN TO THAT! I can vouch for the Redline as mentioned. I never thought an oil could make that much of a difference. I also just purschased some Brad Penn Racing 20-50 motor oil suggested by Raby. There is big difference in how it feels to the touch even from the CJ4 Shell Rotella I was using. When you have an old car you have to realize they are much different animals than the new stuff out now. Think about how metallurgy has changed in 35 years.

Glenn Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:17 am

Kommercial wrote: Everytime this topic comes up I am reminded of an interesting tag that comes with all transmissions from -
German Transaxle of America, formerly Volkstrans
61560 American Lane
Bend, OR 97702

"CAUTION! This trans must be filled with only 80 or 90 weight GL-4 Rated
oil, NOT GL-5, NOT GL-6, NOT GL-3-4-5, NOT GL 4-5-6! Use of any oil
other than straight GL-4 voids the warranty on the synchronizers! GL-4
oil is available from Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, and many other
manufacturers. Do not be talked out of GL-4 by your local supplier who
may not have it! VW and Audi synchros were designed for GL-4 oil, and
any use of GL-5 will cause hard shifting and possibly damage to the
unit. Really! Trust us on this one.

We also highly recommend Redline MT-90 synthetic for easier shifting.
This is the only oil other than the correct GL-4 that will not void the
warranty on the trans."
When was that tag printed?

When GL5 first came it there was a problem. It has since been resolved and i've spoken to a number of companies and all say their GL5 is perfectly safe.

I've used GL5 for over 100k miles and never had a problem.

Kommercial Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:37 am

2000 was the last time I had heard mention of it. When did GL5 come out?

On another note, AZtransaxle didn't mention anything special to put into their transmission when my friend had one built recently.

67stang302 Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:20 pm

Glenn wrote: Kommercial wrote: Everytime this topic comes up I am reminded of an interesting tag that comes with all transmissions from -
German Transaxle of America, formerly Volkstrans
61560 American Lane
Bend, OR 97702

"CAUTION! This trans must be filled with only 80 or 90 weight GL-4 Rated
oil, NOT GL-5, NOT GL-6, NOT GL-3-4-5, NOT GL 4-5-6! Use of any oil
other than straight GL-4 voids the warranty on the synchronizers! GL-4
oil is available from Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, and many other
manufacturers. Do not be talked out of GL-4 by your local supplier who
may not have it! VW and Audi synchros were designed for GL-4 oil, and
any use of GL-5 will cause hard shifting and possibly damage to the
unit. Really! Trust us on this one.

We also highly recommend Redline MT-90 synthetic for easier shifting.
This is the only oil other than the correct GL-4 that will not void the
warranty on the trans."
When was that tag printed?

When GL5 first came it there was a problem. It has since been resolved and i've spoken to a number of companies and all say their GL5 is perfectly safe.

I've used GL5 for over 100k miles and never had a problem.

The last tag I saw with that on it was last month stuck to a trans I had just ordered for a customer. All I know is I only Put GL4 in my customers transmissions as to not Void the warranty that was given.

Glenn Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:59 pm

My friends repair shop services about 40 air cooled VWs and he's been using GL5 for years. There's been not one tranny problem in all the miles those cars have driven.

67stang302 Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:20 pm

Glenn wrote: My friends repair shop services about 40 air cooled VWs and he's been using GL5 for years. There's been not one tranny problem in all the miles those cars have driven.

I wasnt saying No to GL5... I was just stating that my source for rebuilt transmissions still uses that tag and so I use GL4 due to the warranty. And since I stock GL4 in the shop I use it when changing fluids in other transmissions as well.

Now my Personal car is using Redline MT 90.

Arnolds64 Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:27 am

You saw my testimony for Redline. I am going to go with it in my Rancho as soon as I can get the axles to quit leaking. Buddy of mine that dies trans work on VW's say that the paper gasket sucks and say to use Permatex Black.

Bruce Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:50 pm

Kommercial wrote:
German Transaxle of America, formerly Volkstrans
61560 American Lane
Bend, OR 97702

"CAUTION! This trans must be filled with only 80 or 90 weight GL-4 Rated
oil,
Good luck finding straight 80 wt GL-4, or straight 90 GL-4.

BulliBill Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:55 am

Hi all,

I only use GL-4 gear oil in my six of my oldest eight VWs. I'm going with the warnings from the VW engineers, whether they are old warnings or not. Yes, things might have changed, and we are all entitled to our opinions. There's no need for anyone to get snippy here because others don't agree. Just go with what you know, with what makes you and your tranny happy...

As for getting a hold of some GL-4, I can walk into a NAPA parts store anyday and buy one gallon jugs of "Sta-Lube" brand Hypoid SAE 85W90 API/GL-4 gear oil for about $18 a gallon. I do it quite often for my old VWs as well as the occasional customer car I service. If for some reason they are out or that NAPA location doesn't stock it, it's in their computer and they can get it for you The UPC code on the jug is 072213 242393 and Sta-Lubes' product part number is SL24239 and Sta-Lubes' phone number is 1-800-272-8963.

Take care of those gears...

Bill Bowman

Glenn Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:23 am

BulliBill wrote: Hi all,

I only use GL-4 gear oil in my six of my oldest eight VWs. I'm going with the warnings from the VW engineers, whether they are old warnings or not. Yes, things might have changed, and we are all entitled to our opinions. There's no need for anyone to get snippy here because others don't agree. Just go with what you know, with what makes you and your tranny happy.

Bill Bowman
Whatever floats your boat.

But where do you get 91 RON leaded gas these days? (i'm joking)

nikita Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:56 am

I found Shell Getriebeol EP 75W-90 GL-4 on the Aeroshell website, of all places. $7 a liter + shipping. It is sold there for an aircraft engine reduction gearbox application. Any guess what VW or Audi dealers probably charge?

"This product is particularly designed to meet the current VW gearbox service fill requirements and can be used in applications recommending a lubricant meeting VW 501.50." "API Service Classification GL-4" "A carefully selected technology particularly improves the synchromesh compatibility and wear protection of hardware components."

The MSDS shows that it is made from highly refined mineral oil, severely hydrotreated slack wax (Group III+ synthetic base oil) and olefin sulphide additive with some white petoleum mineral oil, probably for additive solvency.

Those of you who insist that GL-4 is obsolete, VW and Shell dont agree.

quartermilecamel Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:59 pm

Ok just to add to this and then some...I called napa today as I knew the stuff would be 18 bucks a gallon...........nope all5 napas in my area tried to sell me the gL3 4 and 5.
Said they didnt have gl4 well thats when it dawned on me that they are gonna sell the "updated stuff" so they think. I had to actually call them and ask for the part number and holy crap batman we now have that in stock. What gets me is the gallon jugs are right next to all the other crap, but they will deny it until you request the actual part number. I would love to call the gl5 companies myslef and ask them.
Since I have trans problems from the unit I rebuilt last time(actually rebuilt by a outfit thats in texas), Im gonna stick with gl4. The only good thing is Im getting faster at swapping transaxles...Im not proud of that fact. I would guess companies would cover over shit like this when its benificial to them.
Im just too carefull cause I have had 1 and a half transmissions fail now. Ive put a total of 30,000 miles on the motor. I should still be on transaxle #1 but nooo Im on tranny #3
I guess it wouldnt be so bad If I could rebuild the transaxle myself but I have to depend on somebody elses skills and they never tell you everything.

Bruce Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:16 pm

quartermilecamel wrote:
Im just too carefull cause I have had 1 and a half transmissions fail now. Ive put a total of 30,000 miles on the motor. I should still be on transaxle #1 but nooo Im on tranny #3.
Your transmission troubles have nothing to do with the oil.

Arnolds64 Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:11 am

Instead of having them rebuilt by the locals, why don't you buy a Rancho unit? I have one and have had it hooked to my new stroker motor and have had no problems. Prior to that my son drove the car to highschool and around for 2 years. At that time it was a warmed over 1641. You have probably spent more now than you would have with a Rancho once?

mango.split Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:35 pm

All vehicles that call for GL4 are being filled with GL5 at the trans shops. GL5 exceeds all the tolerances of GL4. Welcome to the 2000's...

If a trans calls for GL4 and you put GL5 in you would be putting in not only the tolerances they ask for... but higher.


Just read the box of the GL5 and it should say for trans needing GL4 add this.......

alikatcraig Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:25 am

Looking back on this subject over the years, I thought the conclusion was that GL-4 is to be used where specified, and even Glenn admitted this back in 2005, with the exception of 'some' GL-5's which were/maybe safe. I'm sticking with what is known to be safe, has proven itself over time, and is original manufacturer recommended - GL-4. I don't want to read in 5 or 10 years time that listening to what oil company tekkies say today has taken years off my trans. It might be fine for the 10 years you have run it on GL-5, but my box has been together almost 40 years with GL4 and works fine. Only time will tell.

On the subject of listening to and believing oil company BS, some years back Shell got in trouble in the UK for some crappy gas additive that was supposed to clean your motor. Unfortunately it caused nasty build-up on the back of valves over time. Point is, they are not the all seeing oracle/fountain of truth where new technologies are concerned, and sometimes get it wrong.

Glenn Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:16 am

I've not found a GL5 that was unsafe.

mango.split Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:52 pm

alikatcraig wrote: Looking back on this subject over the years, I thought the conclusion was that GL-4 is to be used where specified, and even Glenn admitted this back in 2005, with the exception of 'some' GL-5's which were/maybe safe. I'm sticking with what is known to be safe, has proven itself over time, and is original manufacturer recommended - GL-4. I don't want to read in 5 or 10 years time that listening to what oil company tekkies say today has taken years off my trans. It might be fine for the 10 years you have run it on GL-5, but my box has been together almost 40 years with GL4 and works fine. Only time will tell.

On the subject of listening to and believing oil company BS, some years back Shell got in trouble in the UK for some crappy gas additive that was supposed to clean your motor. Unfortunately it caused nasty build-up on the back of valves over time. Point is, they are not the all seeing oracle/fountain of truth where new technologies are concerned, and sometimes get it wrong.

Thank god everybody does not think like this... we would would have no progress in the world. Welcome to the 2000's... you accepted your computer and other advanced technologies now accept the better lubricants...

Bruce Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:23 pm

alikatcraig wrote: I don't want to read in 5 or 10 years time that listening to what oil company tekkies say today has taken years off my trans.
The silly thing about your fear is that NOBODY has ever seen any damage due to GL-5 gear oil.

On the flip side is GL-4's inferior extreme pressure rating. EVERY gearbox I open up has damage due to this inferior gear oil.

nikita Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:23 am

mango.split wrote: alikatcraig wrote: Looking back on this subject over the years, I thought the conclusion was that GL-4 is to be used where specified, and even Glenn admitted this back in 2005, with the exception of 'some' GL-5's which were/maybe safe. I'm sticking with what is known to be safe, has proven itself over time, and is original manufacturer recommended - GL-4. I don't want to read in 5 or 10 years time that listening to what oil company tekkies say today has taken years off my trans. It might be fine for the 10 years you have run it on GL-5, but my box has been together almost 40 years with GL4 and works fine. Only time will tell.

On the subject of listening to and believing oil company BS, some years back Shell got in trouble in the UK for some crappy gas additive that was supposed to clean your motor. Unfortunately it caused nasty build-up on the back of valves over time. Point is, they are not the all seeing oracle/fountain of truth where new technologies are concerned, and sometimes get it wrong.

Thank god everybody does not think like this... we would would have no progress in the world. Welcome to the 2000's... you accepted your computer and other advanced technologies now accept the better lubricants...

The next higher API number GL-X does not automatically = "better". If that was the case, what happened to GL-6? That myth is the same as saying that API SM motor oil is "better" than SL or SJ for all engines just because it is the latest spec. Flat tappet cams do suffer, not in every case, but enough to be concerned.

The fact is that GL-4 is still an active API spec, not obsolete. Yellow metal syncros have been degraded by too much active sulfur in gear oil. What do you suppose causes that very common 3-2 downshift grinding in VW transaxles?

ACVW's are not 21st century computers, but mid-20th century mechanical devices. Current GL-4 lubes take advantage of the latest base oil refining technology, while using appropriate additives for that specification.



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