TheSamba.com :: View topic - 36hp Land Speed Challenge

Thu May 14, 2009 11:16 pm

I really want to build an unlimited 36 hp engine to break and/or create a record for the fastest 36 hp bus in the world. I cannot find any info and was hoping that whoever writes the rules for the "36hp Land Speed Challenge - Legendary Bonneville beckons the adventurous".
I need the "rules" as to what can and cannot be done and if there aren't any help create them for future attempts. 2010 in the year I want to do this and engine design is in the works.
I'm looking forward to the return of Tom Bruch to Havasu this winter to do some brain picking and hearing from any 36hp hp nut..
My goal is at least 100 hp and 100 mph.
As things progress I will be looking for some sponsership and/or help.
Just sounds like fun for me and a lot of gearheads.

Fri May 15, 2009 12:42 am

I don't know if this is the information you were looking for? But I'm sure the you can get in touch with this guy with your questions.
http://burlyb.com/

Fri May 15, 2009 9:38 am

I was told that it's never been done in a bus, so any speed is a record.

Fri May 15, 2009 5:57 pm

Jawohl wrote: I was told that it's never been done in a bus, so any speed is a record.

Thats what I thought, but I want to run in the 36 hp challange, so I need their rules and if they will do a bus class!!!!

Fri May 15, 2009 7:37 pm

Glad to hear you are joinging the 36hp Challenge with your bus. And yes, we will recognize any speed by a 36 Type 2 Please go to www.burlyb.com and contaact me at the address listed so I can keep you updated on current Challenge information.

In addition, watch for information on the new International 36hp "1" Club. the "1" Club will recognize any 36hp engine car that excees 100 miles per hour at a sanctioned LSR or drag race event. Detail soon! ! ! !

Burly

Mon May 18, 2009 8:35 am

I think to make this new Bus class one that all Vintage Bus enthusiast can identify with is to make a ruling that all Type 2 36hp Challengers should be required to run with Reduction Boxes. :D

Mon May 18, 2009 8:55 am

No straight axles or randars? Oh, the humanity!

Mon May 18, 2009 9:34 am

Thats why I want to see some rules. I am going to use my 60 SC (27000 original miles) as the base VW.

Mon May 18, 2009 2:06 pm

splitpile wrote: Thats why I want to see some rules. I am going to use my 60 SC (27000 original miles) as the base VW.

Splitpile...why don't you pick up a rusty bus to run instead of your 27,000 mile singlecab. You'll probably save some weight. Or get in touch with the guy that owns 'boxrod'. Less air resistance.

Mon May 18, 2009 3:46 pm

Smithy wrote: splitpile wrote: Thats why I want to see some rules. I am going to use my 60 SC (27000 original miles) as the base VW.

Splitpile...why don't you pick up a rusty bus to run instead of your 27,000 mile singlecab. You'll probably save some weight. Or get in touch with the guy that owns 'boxrod'. Less air resistance.

I want it to look nice and original and to run as fast as I can with a 36hp based engine, with the rear gate removed. Plus NO rust ever, solid as original, less work to make nice, show and go, know what I mean :wink:

Mon May 18, 2009 4:15 pm

I was going to take my ice bus out and run it, but have since chickened out.... salt melts ice.

Tue May 19, 2009 9:27 pm

Sorry to hear that beautiful NOS dual carb set-up that got away from me and into your hands Jawohl will not see the use for which it was intended,
And John, the 36hp Challenge guidelines specify a VW 4 speed only, but puts no limitations on yea or nea on reduction boxes. If it were made so, can you picture "all" of the buses topping out at 55 miles per hour.

Your point is well made but their are lots of buses converted to bug trannies so we will leave it up to the individual. Afterall, the object is to have fun, encourage as many folks as have a desire to run and just make your 36 VW go as fast as it can, and of course, faster than it was designed to do.

Just this weekend at Maxton in North Carolina, I witnessed two 36hp records go down. Bruce Cook upped the dual carb bug record to 99.8 mph, beating Mel Ellis's 47 year old record speed by 5 mph and Tom Bruch made his "single 28 pic" carbed singleport do 90 miles per hour, topping the old record by almost 10 mph. The sad part was Bruce could not get that two additinal tenths of a MPH to make him a member of the new "1" Club for 36ers who have exceeded 100 mph(and yes, this means you draggers also!). More inclusive, more fun!

Spiltpile, since Jawohl has backed out, find the splittie of your choice and come join us. Again, get me your email address so I can get you direct and current info.

Burly

Tue May 19, 2009 10:20 pm

RGB transaxles can have a gear change in the trans to make them capable of much higher speeds then the original. The difference between a straight axle vs. RGB equipped bus even though they could have the same final drive ratio is the mechanical residence in the RGBs. A bus with RBGs has no chance in winning.
It would seem pointless for me to install a turbo 36er in my single cab w/RGBs for an all out record if the same style VW can run a straight axle.

Just my 2 cents.

Tue May 19, 2009 10:47 pm

36hplandspeedracer wrote: Sorry to hear that beautiful NOS dual carb set-up that got away from me and into your hands Jawohl will not see the use for which it was intended,
And John, the 36hp Challenge guidelines specify a VW 4 speed only, but puts no limitations on yea or nea on reduction boxes. If it were made so, can you picture "all" of the buses topping out at 55 miles per hour.

Your point is well made but their are lots of buses converted to bug trannies so we will leave it up to the individual. Afterall, the object is to have fun, encourage as many folks as have a desire to run and just make your 36 VW go as fast as it can, and of course, faster than it was designed to do.

Just this weekend at Maxton in North Carolina, I witnessed two 36hp records go down. Bruce Cook upped the dual carb bug record to 99.8 mph, beating Mel Ellis's 47 year old record speed by 5 mph and Tom Bruch made his "single 28 pic" carbed singleport do 90 miles per hour, topping the old record by almost 10 mph. The sad part was Bruce could not get that two additinal tenths of a MPH to make him a member of the new "1" Club for 36ers who have exceeded 100 mph(and yes, this means you draggers also!). More inclusive, more fun!

Spiltpile, since Jawohl has backed out, find the splittie of your choice and come join us. Again, get me your email address so I can get you direct and current info.

Burly

We will talk. I would just like to establish a set of rules as to how a bus can be set up. I know with rgb's it can get real dangerous in a bus above 80 mph. My 60 DD panel could crusie at 85 all day with rgb.s and the big engine. Of course I had a 3.44 r/p and a 77 4th gear and 26 inch tall tires. But getting about 80 mph the front end would get lite. I could also easily do over 100 in my old 60 DC, but it was lowered and had TALL gears and even a bigger engine and the fonr end didn't seem to get as lite.

My plan is to build a big displacement, asperated 36hp case and heads engine using as much old and currant technology that is available but keeping the FIRST engine budget minded..

Here's my take on a set of rules
1. stock bodied bus with bumpers, no chopped, sectiond or modified body panels, fully street legal with horn, headlights, tail lights, t/s or semaphores, all glass etc.

2. lowering is acceptable, but limited to a 3 1/2 inch drop, flipped or welded spindles (welded need to be magnafluxed to check welds/cracking), straight axle kit.

3. standard tire size for class to be decided

4. engine size open, stock 36hp case, no relocated cylinder studs.

5. any crank, rod, cam you can stuff in

6. stock or aftermarket 36 hp based heads

7. as many carbs as you want, no nitrous, water injection, hydrogen generators. 91 octane pump gas NO fuel additives, turbo's, superchargers

This would seem to make a pretty consistent class or have 2 class's if theirs interest. Stock 36 hp, rgb's and unlimited 36, lowered bus

I want sometime I can follow, build interest in speed racing with buses and hopefully have a few turn up in 2010

Wed May 20, 2009 5:56 am

Everything you wrote looks good and thats a good note on the safety. Handling is paramount. Below are some clarifications.

#2 No restrictions on lowering other than safety!

#3 No tire restrictions other than S rated "good" condition tires for under 100 mph and H rated tires over 100.

#7 Fuel must be pump or racing gas(available at the race tracks) without any alchohol content(no E85!). No nitrous but carb, carbs, turbo or superchargers are O.K..

One of the main goals of the 36hp Challenge is to get folks to come out and race. Until a T2 shows up under the simple guidelines we have set forth, there will not be any T2 speed registered. Only if we get multiple entries can we even begin to worry about breaking classes into finer specifics.

Burly

Wed May 20, 2009 7:30 am

If you're going to remove the rdx boxes and lower the bus than why not just run a bug? As I see it the point of running a 36HP bus would be in the challenge of achieving that speed in a design that wasn't able to do it in the first place not changing the compents so much that the original vehicle is somewhat lost.

Wed May 20, 2009 7:36 am

crofty wrote: If you're going to remove the rdx boxes and lower the bus than why not just run a bug? As I see it the point of running a 36HP bus would be in the challenge of achieving that speed in a design that wasn't able to do it in the first place not changing the compents so much that the original vehicle is somewhat lost.

I concur.

Wed May 20, 2009 8:04 am

Me too...why take out the parts that don't suit. It thought the idea was to run a class despite the design limitations...just to show what a humble aircooled vintage VW could do.

Wed May 20, 2009 8:29 am

I think I will leave rgb's the first year, but an unlimited engine. With big nut RGB's and some tall trans gearing I could achieve some speed.
RGB's can just put a limitation.
The 56 off road bus has small nut rgb's, a 4.37 r/p and an 89 4th gear, with 27 inch tall tires I doing 3500 rpm's at 52 mph.
With rgb's the engine would have to be built for max rpm's to achieve speed. It would have to be able to turn at least 6k and hold together.
Of course this can be achieved, in our bench racing sessions about this project we figured it can be done, with major case and head work, the crank is the easy part.
After Sac this weekend we will start to work on the 36hp case. I have a few 356 cranks to work with and am waiting for the heads (they said August)

Wed May 20, 2009 10:07 am

splitpile wrote: waiting for the heads (they said August)
who is they, and what are you doing to the heads?