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Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:34 pm

Quote: Here's some advice for you. Look into some blood pressure medicine, don't ask me why, just go to the doctor and do it. See how useful that is?

If you calmed down a minute you might understand that your time is better spent actually explaining things and not ranting and raging about how we're all going to die without giving any explanation.

Sure they might go bad from time to time, but exactly how many fires have you seen caused by an ignition switch?

Blood pressure was fine last time i checked, some years ago.

I'm calm, very calm.

I have been sharing & explaining stuff for more than 10 years. So yes, sometime i don't feel like "going deep". So. i'll be nice tonight and tell you that sometime i may sound rough. So for that i may, or may not apologize. For now I'm not sure.

This post, like many other was intended so many don't get stranded for a 20-30$ part, it's cheap and easy to replace. so today i have check my invoice system, i have bought over 45. I have none in the shop.

i also have now told you why.

Many of you can get "pass" that problem by cheating, many simply can't. I can start the damn van only by looking at the engine (he he) . Still, i carry a spare one in the glove box.

So what is the big deal here, IGN switch do fail, they leave people stranded, many, maybe not. Here, it's somewhat free to post and give advice. So I do it. It's a cheap fix and it may make you vacation a better one.

Lately i had many problems coming from that small and cheap part so I decided to share. What is the problem here??? some of you guys don't like free advice from a guy who spend 50 hours a week on Vanagons???

Tell me, i can leave The Samba like I left the Vanagon Mailing list.

I'm having fun here but if fun come a nightmare i won't stay. Not at all.

I really don't understand why you guys like/want to argue with me on that subject???? I really don't get it. Please explain! If you all think your IGN swith is good for many years to just keep the old one.

Sorry for that thread, i won't speak about IGN switch again. I Probably won't speak about failing fuel pressure regulator, ECU, Idle control unit, loose TB.... and so on. I will do my engine conversion quietly.

Men I don't get some of you people sometime, i just don't get it.

Ben signing out.

Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:43 pm

randywebb wrote: Andrew A. Libby wrote: I find preemptive changing of the ignition switch entirely unnecessary. A failed one would never leave me stranded. 10 minutes and 2 paperclips (or similar) later I'd be motoring on even with a completely dead switch.

- can you detail the wire markings for those who might become stranded?

The Bentley is in the garage and the last time I did it was 1-1/2 years ago so I don't remember the wire colors. I could look it up or pull the steering column cover, but it would be easier for me if you'd do it. Last time I hot wired my van I didn't have a wiring diagram with me and so just made connections between the big red wire and the various pins until I saw which pin made the dash light up and which made the starter turn. Then I made a "permanent" connection to the pin that caused the dash to light up and a temporary one to the starter to crank it over and I was on my way.

Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:47 pm

Ben, my comments were not meant as a criticism of this thread or even of someone else swapping an ignition switch preemptively, but rather to state that it's not the way I personally choose to deal with the situation. It was also meant to present the easy solution for someone who does have an ignition switch fail. Your input is appreciated.

Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:25 pm

So no fires then?

Just checking as your first post made this sound like a very serious problem, but perhaps it's just a maintenance issue like any other?

Also, no one is arguing with you here, or anywhere so far as I can tell. What you seem to see as arguments are mostly just people asking questions.

If someone who works on these vans 50 hours a week tells us our ignition switches are going to light our vans on fire you can't blame us for asking why he's saying that.

So why are you saying that?

:roll:

Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:04 am

After reading this thread last year. I thought that this was some
really great advise. An inexpensive switch that wouldn't require
much effort to replace. I ordered one and had it waiting for me
when I did my steering wheel swap. Since the collumn would be
apart, why not change out the old switch. Really glad that I did!
You'll notice the difference when you do, the new switch clicks at
every postion like it's suppose to. This was not the case with the
old one. Though the old switch had not failed, you could tell that
it was wearing from use over the 20 plus years and for less than
$10 and a little time. It's cheap insurance!
Keep all those GREAT tips coming Ben!

Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:28 pm

I try to keep a spare with me. If the one you have goes then you can just remove the trim panel under the column, disconnect the plug from the bad switch, plug it into the new switch and start the car with it. Key still needed to keep steering wheel unlocked.

Changing it pre-emptively isn't a bad idea at all, but if you don't have the time at least carry one with you.

-Rob

Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:34 pm

Ok Ben, with me having elctrical problems and sometimes turning the ignition key and getting nothing I AM going to change mine and carry a spare when I get back on the road? Do you sell them? I'm thinking if I ever get off on my dream trip I can pop in when I'm in Montreal. I'll be there for a few days. OR where can I get the correct switches and specifically what do I need? I have a diesel conversion but I'm not sure what replacement engine is going in. Is this a factor? Thanks in advance

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:16 pm

DAIZEE wrote: Ok Ben, with me having elctrical problems and sometimes turning the ignition key and getting nothing I AM going to change mine and carry a spare when I get back on the road? Do you sell them? I'm thinking if I ever get off on my dream trip I can pop in when I'm in Montreal. I'll be there for a few days. OR where can I get the correct switches and specifically what do I need? I have a diesel conversion but I'm not sure what replacement engine is going in. Is this a factor? Thanks in advance

All the usual vendors carry them. They are not specific to any type of engine AFAIK. I don't believe that Ben sells new parts, just extra stuff he has. :D

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:52 pm

Thanks. I still do hope to meet the Mtl and area Sambanistas tho :D

Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:03 pm

I too have been having quirky starting issues. Mechanic wanted to replace the starter, but everyone here @Samba convinced me to buy a new ignition switch first. I figure the $12 for a new switch, plus a half hour of manual labor will get me the answer. If nothing else, I'll have eliminated that part of the problem.

Big thanks to Ben for his great photographic explanations of how to do things like this! Without that, I'd have just taken that $12 part to the shop and spent $80 to have them install it.

Now if I could just convince my wife that the camper van really won't leave us stranded...

Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:52 pm

winstonrodney wrote:
Now if I could just convince my wife that the camper van really won't leave us stranded...

:-)

IGN switch melt, yep, at the light wire, mostly. It's just old plastic that had to cope with high amp for 20 years or so.

(Image from Van-Cafe)

In this little part you have "start signal", IGN + to coil/junction box, lighting, look at the size of the wire going into that somewhat fragile part.

The classic problem being a "No Start / no cranking" problem, second being a front beam problem, the other one is worse, some wire melt and stuff can stay ON or just burned. It look for some reason that the fuses (when wire melt) don't do their job properly.

The IGN switch as a big job in some ways. It give a 12V signal when cranking to the relays (now you make me get my old Benltley out) and a continuous 12V to ECU and coil in the back. When that switch is weak it can give voltage but no or week amp. This is when trouble start.

Subaru conversion: In my case the Subi ECM need a CLEAN START SIGNAL when cranking, it tell the ECM (computer) that everything is fine and ready to go (Subi use start signal for many items, it take that GOOD feedback and translate this one as a OK to go). Understand that before a conversion the old VW engine was working fine, with the new Subi engine it's NOT, the ECM doesn't like that weak signal at all, the VW engine didn't care much... AT SOME POINT.... it doesn't see weakness but the Subi DOES!

So this is why i told you about.

Men, i should write a thesis about a small part of plastic????

Changing your fuel line IS a fire case! The gin switch is not, it's more like a "you will be left stranded on the side of the road"

Now what do you guys need, picture of melted switches????, you know I have some...

enough said, Ben

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:08 pm

Just a side note...Ive looked at quite a few pictures of the ignition switch and noticed something that got me thinking..

See that little "grind" mark at the bottom of the switch ?? Is that the VW/ Audi logo /part number thats been mechanically removed ?? The three I have in my extra box-o-parts has that exact mark.

I got one from Bus Depot and one from Autohaus Az and one from Go-Westy and they all have this mark AND they are all the same part number BUT they are all from different manufactures.

If in fact these are Genuine VW Parts that have the logo removed...are we actually buying a OEM VW part marketed under different brand names and sold through the various on-line vendors ?

Yoost Wundrin :shock:

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:48 pm

RCB wrote:

If in fact these are Genuine VW Parts that have the logo removed...are we actually buying a OEM VW part marketed under different brand names and sold through the various on-line vendors ?

Yoost Wundrin :shock:

VW didn't make much, take the hydro braking system part made by ATE, if you buy a master clutch cylinder from them you will see that the VW logo as been grinned from the mold. Same from many other VW part supplier/sub contractor. VW didn't built clutch, SACHS did.

All auto maker don't built everything, at all, probably 60% is sub contracted. Brake part, shock, bearing, muffler... thinka bout it for a second.
So those companies may see an opportunity after many years when car are getting older, the maker have no reason not to agree. BOSCH is another example.

Now, why are those same part are so cheep (in quality) today... you ask me???

Auto maker don't do much after all, they have money and the facilities... they don't even design the car.

Ben

Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:05 pm

Im aware that VW didn't actually make the part, my curiosity is to whether this might have been a Genuine VW part sold through the dealer.

The ignition switch from a dealer with the VW/Aud Logo on it sells for $65.00 (at least this part number does 111-905-865L) and my point was that if you can buy the one in the picture for $5.00-$12.00...are you getting a genuine part with the logo removed.

Why spend $65.00 for this part if the same one being sold through the various online vendors for $5.00 or $12.00 ?

P.S. When record companies like Blue Note and Fantasy and Impulse quite pressing Jazz LP's and they just wanted to deplete their inventory they would punch a hole through the Companies trademark logo and dumped them on the market for considerably less money.

CD's were entering the market and when record sales (LP's ) bottomed out...the various record companies cleaned house.

Funny thing is.....LP's are making a come-back...go figure.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:16 pm

ftp2leta wrote: Is that clear enough???

So what does it take to convince you? An electric fire????

I'm not kidding here.

Ben

ftp2leta wrote:
Changing your fuel line IS a fire case! The gin switch is not, it's more like a "you will be left stranded on the side of the road"

Now what do you guys need, picture of melted switches????, you know I have some...

enough said, Ben

Good, the ignition switch is not a fire risk. Thanks for making that clear.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:50 pm

The factory $65.00 switch doe not have a VW logo on it . It doesn't even have a Country of origin Stamp . You can see where the COS was delete in the mold process .
For that kind of money I would have preferred to have a VW logo ,but time will tell if it is a better part or not.

Stacy

Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:58 am

Can you say No Name food? Well some of the No Name food is THE brand name food. Can sell for less as no copyright. But not all No Name same quality. I'm thinking this could apply here but I think if it is inexpensive then carry 2 or 3 and if they fail too easily then try a more expensive brand. Name and who handles sets the price most often.

Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:59 am

Mine is fine too.And I always have one extra with me.(I always have a second vanagon parted out in my vanagon in fact :lol: )

I would have never thought it's hard to do... But maybe because I stripped alot of vanagons...?

Here are some pics copied from the post about my Hawaiian Westfalia Vanagon:

Note the 2 different switch models,I think the extra pin is for rear wipers option?...Someone told meone day but I forgot.

I worked on replacing the steering column bearing with its support

I took out my ignition switch to put it into the donor
Switch on Wolfsburg Edition on left ,Westfalia on right

I took everything apart to grease inside
Tests for reassembly,wrote down the key code for cutting brand new keys.

Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:26 pm

A pretty simple question. Could replacing this help with some electrical connections that are activated by the ignition? I'm not saying it will correct, I'm asking if the possibility is there? okay saying it backwards, could some of the wiring problems activated by the ignition be easier to solve by putting a new one in? I'm looking for a perhaps, maybe, possibly and I'd love to hear a most certainly! :wink:

Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:28 pm

DAIZEE wrote: A pretty simple question. Could replacing this help with some electrical connections that are activated by the ignition? I'm not saying it will correct, I'm asking if the possibility is there? okay saying it backwards, could some of the wiring problems activated by the ignition be easier to solve by putting a new one in? I'm looking for a perhaps, maybe, possibly and I'd love to hear a most certainly! :wink:

Yes. It may solve some problems (or then it might not) but it certainly won't hurt to try. :D