TheSamba.com :: View topic - Race Bus / Fast Bus / Sleeper Bus **Info & Idea Thread

Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:27 pm

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Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:31 pm

http://fellowsspeedshop.tumblr.com/

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Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:06 pm

53 Deluxe

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Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:55 pm

As the others have said, ArtistAntonio it is good to see your enthusiasm. But your tag line sucks. We all like to see what people are doing to make their VW faster but if you think the above will save you then you are missing the point.
Just a couple of simple examples. A 4 point shoulder harness bolted to the floor over a seat will crush the seatback and your spine in an accident.
Roll cages are all good, when you are wearing a helmet/hans and have padding. But get Larry, Moe, Curly or your buddy to take a baseball bat and hit your head. It hurts don't it, the roll cage will kill you all the same. :wink:

Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:34 pm

ArtistAntonio wrote:

^Clean seat harness setup to stock seats.

^Mounts to floor.

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Yikes!!! :shock:

I think I would rather go through the windshield and die than be paralyzed from the neck down by having this thing crush my spine. :roll:

Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:19 pm

Here are some pictures of the sway bar kits mounted up on an early type two.

Yes are are still hard at work on the bus A-Arm front end. 8)

Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:41 pm

jesus_chrysler wrote: ArtistAntonio wrote:

^Clean seat harness setup to stock seats.

^Mounts to floor.

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Yikes!!! :shock:

I think I would rather go through the windshield and die than be paralyzed from the neck down by having this thing crush my spine. :roll:

I'm going to agree with that. That's just flat out stupid and dangerous. Almost as bad as having a bare roll cage in vehicle you regularly drive on the street. :?

I'm all for high hp aircooled motors and subaru swaps and all that jazz just as much as the next person, but be smart about it.

Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:59 pm

Antonio; Why not just buy a Subaru? It would be cheaper, handle better, be safer and you wouldn't have hacked up/ruined a bus for no reason!
Coolyrydes; A huge rear sway bar is probably the worst thing you can do for a bus. It will induce more over steer. Exactly what you don't want. An A arm kit for a bus? Why? :roll:

Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:09 pm

dref wrote: Coolyrydes; A huge rear sway bar is probably the worst thing you can do for a bus. It will induce more over steer. Exactly what you don't want. An A arm kit for a bus? Why? :roll:

Hey brother, I've driven my fair shair of busses and now with our sway bar kits. This thing is just big enough to prevent body roll and it certainly makes you feel a lot better going around corners. Besides I would rether have a little oversteer any day better then a roll over. You know that is another name for sway bars "Anti Roll Bars".... Try a set I'm sure you change your mind.... 8)

Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:10 am

coolrydes wrote: dref wrote: Coolyrydes; A huge rear sway bar is probably the worst thing you can do for a bus. It will induce more over steer. Exactly what you don't want. An A arm kit for a bus? Why? :roll:

Hey brother, I've driven my fair shair of busses and now with our sway bar kits. This thing is just big enough to prevent body roll and it certainly makes you feel a lot better going around corners. Besides I would rether have a little oversteer any day better then a roll over. You know that is another name for sway bars "Anti Roll Bars".... Try a set I'm sure you change your mind.... 8)

I have over 200+ autocross days and a few other random track days mixed in, but none on a bus so I will defer to other people's knowledge/experience.

But my question is, what part of the rear sway bar will help with a swing axle suspension set up? The oversteer caused by the sway bar is going to make the entire situation worse. The slight body roll it might reduce doesn't seem the added risk to an already risky set up. Buses (cab forward, swing axle, torsion setup etc) were NOT meant to handle corners. Throwing thousands of dollars into them seems pretty pointless.

More money than brains and all that...

Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:14 am

So dref, what's your bus like?

Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:14 am

Andrew; Bone stock Mouse Grey, except the middle seat cover is a repro TMI over the original seat covers and the rear seat is como green. I try to keep her below 40MPH at all times.

My autocrossers are an Evo 9 and a $200 95 Neon Sport. I must be old or pragmatic, but I buy cars for their own purposes. It would be pretty silly to go cruising in my Neon, just like it would be silly to go autocrossing in my bus. The Evo has set FTD and runs 11's, the Neon is usually in the top 10 (out of 60 or so people). Spending 10-20K on a bus so it runs 14's is pretty weak.

Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:00 am

dref wrote: coolrydes wrote: dref wrote: Coolyrydes; A huge rear sway bar is probably the worst thing you can do for a bus. It will induce more over steer. Exactly what you don't want. An A arm kit for a bus? Why? :roll:

Hey brother, I've driven my fair shair of busses and now with our sway bar kits. This thing is just big enough to prevent body roll and it certainly makes you feel a lot better going around corners. Besides I would rether have a little oversteer any day better then a roll over. You know that is another name for sway bars "Anti Roll Bars".... Try a set I'm sure you change your mind.... 8)

I have over 200+ autocross days and a few other random track days mixed in, but none on a bus so I will defer to other people's knowledge/experience.

But my question is, what part of the rear sway bar will help with a swing axle suspension set up? The oversteer caused by the sway bar is going to make the entire situation worse. The slight body roll it might reduce doesn't seem the added risk to an already risky set up. Buses (cab forward, swing axle, torsion setup etc) were NOT meant to handle corners. Throwing thousands of dollars into them seems pretty pointless.

More money than brains and all that...

It's funny to me that you point out you have more then 200 Autocross days, as I have been racing with the Porsche club for over 15 years and a Performance driving instructor for over 13 years.

It seems to me that you have a stock bus that you don't drive very fast, and that you would never dream of trying to drive it fast. So I have a question for you first. Why are you even wasting your time in a thread that is about building or adding performance to a type 2?

Now on to your questions. Why a sway bar or ANTI-ROLL bar, first tell me why not. This is not a thousand dollar upgrade.
In a turn there are many forces happening at the same time, and all effect the suspension in some way while it is trying to control what is going on. As a bus or vehicle with a high center of gravity goes thru a turn, the top of the vehicle starts to lean due to centrifugal force and the lack of any type of support pushing against it. Your out side torsion bar/ spring is trying to push back. An Anti-Roll Bar now takes some of that force that is pushing the outside spring up and transfer that force to the inside spring, thus increasing the outside spring rate. This keeps the vehicle more vertical. Yes, if you make the Anti Roll bar to stiff then you'll get a very quick over steer condition, however if you add enough Anti-Roll bar / sway bar tension without going to stiff then you'll control the roll and make the vehicle safer. I'm sure with your track history you've heard or read about "lossening" or "tighting a car up". These slang terms are in reference to adjusting a sway bar.

Please take a little time and research sway/Anti-roll bars before you go to much further.

Also enjoy this very watched video... Yes those are VANS!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWLFGPl1Kdk&feature=related

Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:20 am

Closer detail of RJ's Porsche 915 (5 speed) gearbox & 2600cc Type 4 Engine (as corrected by Orb) installed into his 54 23 Barndoor.

*Photos & descriptions below are by Rikki James (5 following pics).

"Here's a few pix of the installed Porsche 915 gearbox into my '54 samba, with as much as possible, minimum modifications. Obviously the frame horns had to go due to the size of the bell housing on the box, never the less it wouldn't be a to difficult job to re-install them if need be."

^ "Gear box mounted under torsion bar (solid mounted), with custom noes cone, mounting bracket."

^ "Motor plate between engine and gearbox, with lower support bar connected to chassis rails."

^ "Shock absorbers mounted to chassis rails, square bolted plate to the left is the upper motor plate support brace mount."

^ "In this picture you can see rear engine mount that is covered by the rear valance, along with top motor plate brace. Before this recent'ish upgraded was installed, the engine and gearbox were all over the place (mainly caused by abuse)."

^ "Motor plate, bracing bar, solid mounted, left side of engine bay."

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http://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=62509&start=60

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Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:53 pm

Andrew wrote: jesus_chrysler wrote: ArtistAntonio wrote:

^Clean seat harness setup to stock seats.

^Mounts to floor.

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Yikes!!! :shock:

I think I would rather go through the windshield and die than be paralyzed from the neck down by having this thing crush my spine. :roll:

I'm going to agree with that. That's just flat out stupid and dangerous. Almost as bad as having a bare roll cage in vehicle you regularly drive on the street. :?

I'm all for high hp aircooled motors and subaru swaps and all that jazz just as much as the next person, but be smart about it.

lol those seat belts are deadly,grossly miss-fitted and belong in a bin

Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:08 pm

coolrydes wrote:
Yes, if you make the Anti Roll bar to stiff then you'll get a very quick over steer condition, however if you add enough Anti-Roll bar / sway bar tension without going to stiff then you'll control the roll and make the vehicle safer. I'm sure with your track history you've heard or read about "lossening" or "tighting a car up". These slang terms are in reference to adjusting a sway bar.

Have you done any testing on your bus on the track to prove that it's not actually making a dangerous situation worse? I would be interested in seeing this information/testing.

How do we as consumers know you're not selling a 'too stiff' bar. At least you acknowledge that a dangerous oversteer (made worse by swing axle suspensions) exists with incorrect sway bar adjustment.

Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:19 pm

Form > Function :?
I think the masters of this art are custom Harley Motorbike guys. Possibly the Stanceworks/Hellaflush crew. Where the fashion that grew out of something done initially by racers has morphed into a fashion that has made it into an undriveable state.

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:24 pm

[quote="ArtistAntonio"] brettsvw wrote: ArtistAntonio wrote: 986 / 996 Porsche Brembo Brakes to all four corners of Type 2 Bus (stock beam)

^Old wolgang/bay brakes required adapters...not ideal

^VDubEngineering Brembo brackets come coated and ready for mounting.

I noticed you did not like caliper adapters but are still using caliper adapters for the Porsche brakes.
^ Um...no.

Those are Caliper Mounting Brackets made specifically for Brembo calipers your trying to call me out on....not adapters.

I already posted a photo of the adapter....here it is again for Brett...

Some more dangerous adapters...

^ DO NOT use these if you value your life. I speak from experience....not from 3rd & 4th party grapevine chatter.

First off, I will state I would go with Porsche Brembos over bay bakes any day.
Bay brakes driven on the streets will throw you thru the windshield.

But, when you make statements on worldwide forums and call one setup with adapters junk and you then install another set up with adapters (when you adapt it is an adapter). I was a little confused.

The Brembo caliper brackets in the pic looks like angle iron and flat steel being adapted to the stock non-disk spindles.

I misunderstood the adapter part because you don't have to have adapters for bay brakes? There are plenty of wheel selections for 5X112 bolt patterns.

As for the wheel adapters; They have been used as spacers in hard racing for decades.

I am not trying to give you a hard time. When you are on the world wide web with unlimited readers' well you get my point.

Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:30 pm

^ 2276 Turbo

^ 2276 Turbo

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^ http://mastershift.com/index.html

^ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1127827

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^ G50, 901, 915, 930

^ "HPP's shifters are known to be the "Best of the Best". They are designed and manufactured to impeccable standards and built with state of the art CNC machines. They define the shifting experience."

^ http://hargettprecision.com/index.php/porsche-products/porsche-shifters.html

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^ "This shifter is a radical new approach according to any other shifter on the market. Shifting travel is wonderful short, the look is straightforward and functional. Very big improvement compared to the original VW shifter.Reverse lock done by counterpressure. Quick and easy mounting. 100% made in Germany."

^ http://raceshifter.de/index.php?XTCsid=41199448e5c635ba330a4a08172adc35

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^ PBS Cable Shifter ... "Finally, a mid/rear-engine cable shifter that eliminates stress and vulnerability encountered when using the VW Nose Cone, while providing the same positive feel of the OEM hardware. Unique shifter is made of 356 T6 cast aluminum and features a spring loaded reverse lockout built into the cover. Complete with everything except the cables, which you can custom order to fit your application. The complete set up can be installed with ordinary hand tools without dismantling your transmission! Slight modification to the shift rail is necessary. An optional VW mounting adapter is available and bolts onto the rear plate of the shifter cover. Two holes on the bottom pick up the stock VW nose cone mounting tab on the frame. Adapter plate is 3/8" steel and the two holes are tapped for mounting. Mounting hardware for the plate is included with the adapter. Rancho offers this rugged and durable linkage for use with Type 1 Swing or IRS and Mendeola MD4E and 2D transaxles."

^ http://www.ranchotransaxles.com/store/shifters-c-33.html?osCsid=21k7i7npg6i9e09cenkvn545i6

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Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:06 pm

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FellowsSpeedShop.com

(Perry Fellows specializes in Subaru Powered Split Buses)

^ Video at FellowsSpeedShop.com

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^ EJ20 into Type 3.... posting to show VW/Subaru power setup

^ Owner / Builder - daimotoo1956

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23 Porsche

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