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Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:32 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: You can also jack the van up, install the socket and bar so that it is resting against the ground in the correct direction and slowly lower the van. The weight of the van will bust it loose. With any high torque fastener, there is always a considerable risk of injury if tools slip or break. Use good judgement.

Andrew
Good idea Andrew!! I ran into a mechanic at the Post Office and he's going to loosen it up for me in about 1/2 hour. he loosened the front axle nut on Mrs. Wayne's Volvo when I did the wheel bearings on it. it was a 36 or 39 mm,I forget. didn't charge me anything either.

Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:13 am

the mechanic here couldn't get the axle nut off either. I had to go to a truck shop like some of you suggested. it's a good thing I had the socket,they didn't have one big enough. they didn't charge me.

Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:17 am

I had some difficulties, but I did solve them...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...p;start=12

:twisted:

All I can say is that in my own context, the propane torch worked just fine.

Best!

Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:57 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote: Andrew A. Libby wrote: You can also jack the van up, install the socket and bar so that it is resting against the ground in the correct direction and slowly lower the van. The weight of the van will bust it loose. With any high torque fastener, there is always a considerable risk of injury if tools slip or break. Use good judgement.

Andrew
Good idea Andrew!! I ran into a mechanic at the Post Office and he's going to loosen it up for me in about 1/2 hour. he loosened the front axle nut on Mrs. Wayne's Volvo when I did the wheel bearings on it. it was a 36 or 39 mm,I forget. didn't charge me anything either.

I've been contemplating this (have to pull the hubs so I can put in my new studs) but this hadn't even occurred to me. Really sounds like it would work.

Problem is, if something wants to break, and shards decide they want to fly at you, the enormous amount of force applied by the lowering of the van could cause projectiles to go flying and pierce, say, a lung, an eye, or worse.

So goggles and body armor might be in order.

Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:01 pm

:lol: Yes. Thus the "Use good judgment" statement. I noticed in one of msinabottle's posts he mentions the possibility of keeping the van on the wheels, installing the socket, breaker and cheater with the handle oriented so that it rests on a strong hydraulic jack. Then jacking the handle up. I like that idea better and it has the potential to provide the same force, but with more control and less likelihood of damage to self or van if the unexpected occurs.

Andrew

Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:22 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: :lol: Yes. Thus the "Use good judgment" statement. I noticed in one of msinabottle's posts he mentions the possibility of keeping the van on the wheels, installing the socket, breaker and cheater with the handle oriented so that it rests on a strong hydraulic jack. Then jacking the handle up. I like that idea better and it has the potential to provide the same force, but with more control and less likelihood of damage to self or van if the unexpected occurs.

Andrew

i tried that method, it worked great...for lifting my van. seriously it did and the nut didn't break! my left side one came off in 2 mins with an impact, right side wouldn't give even after an hour of impacting with a fairly decent impact wrench. with the nut and socket getting more and more damaged i resorted to very carefully grinding the nut off.

Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:46 pm

vwlovr wrote: Andrew A. Libby wrote: :lol: Yes. Thus the "Use good judgment" statement. I noticed in one of msinabottle's posts he mentions the possibility of keeping the van on the wheels, installing the socket, breaker and cheater with the handle oriented so that it rests on a strong hydraulic jack. Then jacking the handle up. I like that idea better and it has the potential to provide the same force, but with more control and less likelihood of damage to self or van if the unexpected occurs.

Andrew

i tried that method, it worked great...for lifting my van. seriously it did and the nut didn't break! my left side one came off in 2 mins with an impact, right side wouldn't give even after an hour of impacting with a fairly decent impact wrench. with the nut and socket getting more and more damaged i resorted to very carefully grinding the nut off.

How long of a cheater pipe did you use?

Andrew

Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:02 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: vwlovr wrote: Andrew A. Libby wrote: :lol: Yes. Thus the "Use good judgment" statement. I noticed in one of msinabottle's posts he mentions the possibility of keeping the van on the wheels, installing the socket, breaker and cheater with the handle oriented so that it rests on a strong hydraulic jack. Then jacking the handle up. I like that idea better and it has the potential to provide the same force, but with more control and less likelihood of damage to self or van if the unexpected occurs.

Andrew

i tried that method, it worked great...for lifting my van. seriously it did and the nut didn't break! my left side one came off in 2 mins with an impact, right side wouldn't give even after an hour of impacting with a fairly decent impact wrench. with the nut and socket getting more and more damaged i resorted to very carefully grinding the nut off.

How long of a cheater pipe did you use?

Andrew

i don't remember exactly, but it was around 4-5 feet. i had smaller pipe i used to extend it, but that was already bent by the time i got to the floor jack method. the wax trick sounds interesting, i'm going to try that next time.

Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:40 pm

Well, it sounds like either it was corroded on there mercilessly or someone had exceeded the torque spec dramatically. IMO, that's a prime example of why I wouldn't use an impact wrench to put them on.

I once had a AAA torque a wheel on so tight that the next time I tried to remove it I broke 2 socket adapters (3/4-1/2") that were rated to over 400 ft. lbs...

Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:05 pm

A little anti-seize and the proper torque will make removing the nut easier next time. I got tired of guessing and bought this beast to get the torque right- 3/4" drive 600lb torque wrench

Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:58 pm

When I did my rear wheel bearings, the axle nuts were a P.I.T.A. I actually broke my first breaker bar in half. In my case, heating it with a torch and using a really big breaker bar broke 'em both loose easily enough.

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:34 pm

I picked up a 1" 5' breaker bar and 1" six point impact socket. I chalked the tire and really put my 250 lbs into it and they cam off...

It all about leverage. Longer the bar the easier it is....

[/quote]

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:34 pm

not that this is going to be a help to some, but perhaps an inspiration to get the proper tools...:

get a nice impact gun and a compressor.... yes its money, but so is your time, and i bet you'd be willing to trade sore/bruised body parts from bludgeoning the axle nut forever, not to mention the cost of gas for those torches....

but seriously. if you are ever going to spend time working on your van, then buy the right tools. while these grassroots methods do work, some of them are pretty damn dangerous.

i've pulled the axle nuts on 3 vanagons this week alone.... and all i had to do was grab my impact, slip on the socket, plug in the air hose and 10 seconds later, i'm like "damn, this was one of the best investments ever"

not to mention pulling apart suspension and whatever else.... plus it makes a cool sound and you look super legit.

:D

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:45 pm

I've owned one of these for years. Heavy and awkward, but does the job and no compressor needed. 2000ft-lbs of torque, plus you can add to that what ever torque you can put on a breaker bar.

http://www.powerhawk.com/pages/SWENCH/1000.html

Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:52 am

So, if a person were to rent the tool(s) necessary to do this job, and if the cost of the tool rental were the same for which ever solution one chose, would it be best to rent:

-manual impact wrench set, or
-electric impact wrench set, or
-5 foot long 3/4 inch breaker bar with 46 mm socket, or

Something else?

Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:56 am

First buy the socket, so that you can go by the truck stop to get the nut loosened with their 1" impact. Next step would be to buy a 24 inch long 3/4" breaker bar. This way you can tighten the nut back up yourself and with a good long pipe for a cheater maybe get it loose the next time.

Most 1/2 inch impacts aren't going to touch these nuts. I have seen 3/4 Ingersoll Rands that wouldn't do it at times without heat.

Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:12 am

Quote: Most 1/2 inch impacts aren't going to touch these nuts. I have seen 3/4 Ingersoll Rands that wouldn't do it at times without heat.

have to disagree with you here.... I've never come across an axle nut that my 1/2" gun hasn't gotten off... (with the exception of an early 80's bmw who's rear axle bolt was so rusted, it was all one chunk of rust)

and my co-worker can vouch the same for his 1/2" drive impact...

with a proper compressor and a good 1/2" drive (not like a craftsman or harbor frieght unit), you shouldn't have any issue...

I use a chicago pneumatic cp7750 and he runs the IR titanium bad boy.... shop compressor is around 100-120 psi with a big tank... (my home compressor with a smaller tank has no problems either...

Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:18 am

I was wondering about that 1" or nothing comment.
Not to be argumentative as I haven't taken one off any of my Vans. I have taken them off old cars and boat trailers with a 1/2" drive.
I would think a good Snap On 1/2 drive socket could handle the task on a breaker bar? Or would the breaker bar break? Maybe a 3/4" drive on a 3/4 breaker bar? I'm not buying any pneumatic tools here so the manual option is probably best to use the larger 1" drive and bar?

Thank you,

David

Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:28 am

Bern wrote: Quote: Most 1/2 inch impacts aren't going to touch these nuts. I have seen 3/4 Ingersoll Rands that wouldn't do it at times without heat.
have to disagree with you here.... I've never come across an axle nut that my 1/2" gun hasn't gotten off... (with the exception of an early 80's bmw who's rear axle bolt was so rusted, it was all one chunk of rust)

Having worked in a truck shop years ago, I can tell you that your 1/2 7750 CP (or mine) seems like a toy compared to either a 3/4 or 1" impact. 800 ft-lbs just doesn't cut it when you need 1400. In a good bit of the country every axle nut you go to touch is going to be as rusty and seized as the nut on that '80 BMW.

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:17 pm

Wildthings wrote: Bern wrote: Quote: Most 1/2 inch impacts aren't going to touch these nuts. I have seen 3/4 Ingersoll Rands that wouldn't do it at times without heat.
have to disagree with you here.... I've never come across an axle nut that my 1/2" gun hasn't gotten off... (with the exception of an early 80's bmw who's rear axle bolt was so rusted, it was all one chunk of rust)

Having worked in a truck shop years ago, I can tell you that your 1/2 7750 CP (or mine) seems like a toy compared to either a 3/4 or 1" impact. 800 ft-lbs just doesn't cut it when you need 1400. In a good bit of the country every axle nut you go to touch is going to be as rusty and seized as the nut on that '80 BMW.

Not arguing the fact that a 1/2" gun doesn't compare to a 3/4" or 1", that would be like saying that a syncro van does better than a 2wd off road, pretty obvious and really not worth mentioning. what I was pointing out was that there are plenty of 1/2" guns out there that are more than enough to pop off vanagon axle nuts all day long without issue...

and now with some of the new guns coming out that are rated at 1200 ft/lbs(rated is a hard term to nail down, but nonetheless, i'm not going to debate the measuring devices and techniques to rate airguns), it seems that we're getting more than enough umph out of 1/2" drive guns than is necessary in most cases (especially on vanagons)...

the bmw was more of an example that there are SOME situations wherein even if you had the torque of thor, you may as well replace some parts that are rusted beyond repair/safety. I do get plenty of east coast cars to work on, and have not had issues with getting off "rusted" nuts.

the POINT of this was that 95% if the time, a decent 1/2" drive gun is a much SAFER and EASIER method than some of the other methods described here. not to mention the MULTITUDE of other uses for an impact gun.... it is what i consider a "must" investment for anyone thats going to spend some time wrenching on their vehicle.

when you say something to the affect that 1/2" guns are useless, i'll have to disagree, as I use mine on a daily basis for a multitude of things, and it just so happens to work very well on axle nuts... perhaps this will inspire someone to see the worth in investing in a nice pneumatic gun, and save themselves hours of work using archaic methods to remove a bolt/nut.... and just for the sake of avoiding confusion, i will also mention that someone not working on big rigs all day long, shouldn't bother with a 3/4" or larger impact gun, 1/2" is more than enough for virtually anything you're going to be doing on a vanagon, except for that 1% chance that your axle nuts are so pooched that you need 1400 ft/lb to remove it, and if that is the case, then you'll have a cool story to tell.