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Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:53 am

Wildthings wrote: raygreenwood wrote: Wildthings wrote: babysnakes wrote: Well my Rockfords have failed. They seem to come apart where the rubber meets the flange. I have to pull the engine on my '72 for maintenance stuff anyway. So after reading everything I could on the Tiguan boots I'm going to order a set. I don't care if they are a bit pricey, if they last they will be worth every penny. Thanks to all involved with researching a viable alternative to the available crap that's out there. :D

Rockford has changed their design, obviously not for the better.

So do you think its design...or materials...or both that have changed? The Rockfords used to use a clamp to hold the large end of the boot to its flange, but their recent production (or at least what is getting sold as Rockfords) crimps the metal flange to hold the boot like other brands.

You can see the ones I purchased in my gallery (clamp held). Purchased those in mid-late 2018. Anyone have a pic of one being sold now? My old boots are in the gallery as well (Lobro). They lasted 20+ years.

Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:09 am

I am curious about the report of Rockford CV boots having a failure where the boot attaches to the metal frame. We've not seen or heard of this but since we sell the Rockford product we'd obviously like to know if there is an issue.

This is a photo of the Rockford CV boot we carry. The boot is clamped to the frame, not swaged. Perhaps this is a different construction from the ones that have failed? (seems possible from the posts above). We don't use the 'standard' boot that Rockford specifies for a Bus/Vanagon, this boot is a bit longer and has one more convolution than the 'standard' one, this is something we worked though over the years by trying different parts from Rockford and finding one that seems to work really well.

Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:19 am

I thought the issue was the material and how it held up to the environment?

Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:17 am

From some of the tinkering I have been doing with CV boot designs......the type of clamping that Scott shows in his picture.....is the best type of joint. Especially so in the few CV joint flanges I have found that have a slight swell or smooth pressed in "bump" for the clamp to be behind.

This would be similar in function to the expanded end you find on steel fuel line sections where clamped hoses are used. Its function is to allow enough clamping force where the diameter of the clamp is smaller than the diameter of the bump.....so the hose or boot cannot slip off.......but it does so without EXCESSIVE clamping force ...which crushes the rubber.

When the rubber is excessively crushed during clamping.....it it does not outright cut the surgace of the rubber with the clamp....it eventually causes permanent rubber compaction....which causes cracking right at the clamping line.....from a combination of shrinkage, vibration and drying from age and the normal environmental attack (heat, water, chemicals etc.).

The problem I have been finding with swaged boots......is a combination of poor deburrimg of the edges of the two metal walls the boot is swaged between (they are left sharp)...which cuts into the surface of the rubber.....or over swaging.....which crushes the rubber just like over clamping. Either way it damages the surface of the rubber and creates a weak cross section.

Then....on the swaged part.....as you drive over bumps and the suspension extends.....it stretches the damaged portion of the rubber.....that ring right outside the swage joint....alternately inward across the inner ID of the swage....and outward along the outer OD of the swage. Its pure fatigue. Right at the swage line is where these boots usually crack all the way around.

To add to those last few sentences.....the damage and fatigue line......you get what is "probably".....some installer error. If whoever installs the boot......slides the small end farther inward on the CV shaft....stretching the boot out further.......as the joint goes through its range of motion.....it puts a great deal more stretch or stress on the boot....right at the swage line.

So....I personally believe that all boots should come with a length specification.....to say how far they should be expanded when installed.

This is all even in addition to the attack you get from ozone....which I am starting to find is not even remotely the main problem......and grease type/base....which is a bigger problem.....and variations in hardness/durometer and material formula....which is one of the larger problems.....that is leveraged by the other issues.

Lets put aside the chemical composition of the rubber for a second (meaning whether its a good formulation of viton or not). If just the durometer (hardness) varies on a boot.....lets say ita harder.....which means its elasticity and available elongation/stretch-ability will be lower......and you have the issues listed above......a crimped/swaged joint.....and its installed too stretched out on the shaft.....it will fail fast. Ray

Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:31 am

The boot Rockford specifies (or used to, I am not sure what they spec now) for a Bus was too short and after installation the small end of the boot would end up inside the ridges where it is meant to rest. We got samples of a few of the boots they make that will fit on the frame and the axle and picked a longer one. So the boot assemblies we order from them are sort of a custom part we came up with together with their tech people. They seem to work well - at least we have never heard of any failures.

Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:53 am

germansupplyscott wrote: I am curious about the report of Rockford CV boots having a failure where the boot attaches to the metal frame. We've not seen or heard of this but since we sell the Rockford product we'd obviously like to know if there is an issue.

This is a photo of the Rockford CV boot we carry. The boot is clamped to the frame, not swaged. Perhaps this is a different construction from the ones that have failed? (seems possible from the posts above). We don't use the 'standard' boot that Rockford specifies for a Bus/Vanagon, this boot is a bit longer and has one more convolution than the 'standard' one, this is something we worked though over the years by trying different parts from Rockford and finding one that seems to work really well.

Same Rockford boot as what I purchased from Rockford. Clamp and all.

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:01 am

Here is a thread on the VW Tiguan boots, note that Vanagons use the same boots as a Bay so the Tiguan boots should fit both equally.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=745007

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:05 am

Yep....(babysnakes)

Too short (Rockford) part number on the boot doesn't even match a bus.

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:29 am

germansupplyscott wrote: The boot Rockford specifies (or used to, I am not sure what they spec now) for a Bus was too short and after installation the small end of the boot would end up inside the ridges where it is meant to rest. We got samples of a few of the boots they make that will fit on the frame and the axle and picked a longer one. So the boot assemblies we order from them are sort of a custom part we came up with together with their tech people. They seem to work well - at least we have never heard of any failures.

Thats a good thing.

Thats basically the same type of issue. If the correct part number of boot was too short...not going to the ridges where its designed to seal....and people try to stretch it to get there.....it stresses not only the crimp joint (on a crimped boot)....but it also over stresses the peaks and valleys of the bellows.

Length of boot as well as positioning....are critical even with good material. Ray

Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:09 pm

Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:20 pm

That's a different boot than German Supply's Rockford. There's another pleat or two.

I ordered 4 but have yet to put them into service.

Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:29 pm

I ordered the 1K0498201 boots from FCP Euro. I was able to buy four OEM VW/Audi boots from them for $35.99/ea. They came with the clamp, C-Clip, the spacer and I bought CV grease from NAPA. I have the axles all broke down, I cleaned and rebuilt the CV joints and I painted the axles. Hoping to reassemble and install them this weekend. I will post pics of the completed axle installed.

Thanks to the person who discovered that these boots fit and thanks to all the people who have installed them and posted their results. 🙌

Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:59 am

Those Tiguan cv boots look really good.

Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:25 am

richparker wrote: I ordered the 1K0498201 boots from FCP Euro. I was able to buy four OEM VW/Audi boots from them for $35.99/ea.
You bought them just in time, Rich...
Those boots are listed at $47.69 now.
But if they last, they're still worth the price.

Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:02 pm

KentABQ wrote:
Those boots are listed at $47.69 now.
But if they last, they're still worth the price.

Yup, looks like the price went up. I bet I got a Xmas cyber deal.

I borrowed a crip tool from a buddy and finished up the axle rebuilt and installed them. They fit perfect and look pretty good. I will update in the future with their durability.

Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:06 pm

One thing I've done with my boots is to periodically squirt and wipe them down with armor-all. Seems to keep them from getting cruddy and rough, by sealing out the oxygen and road crud. Did the same with ball joint and tie rod end boots. So far, so good. Will report future status...

Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:21 pm

I bought the Tiguan boots for my Westy. They look and feel very solid. Based on the fact that I got them from the VW dealership I think they should last for years. A bit pricey, but if they last as they should on a new car, worth every penny. We shall see.

Mon May 16, 2022 4:26 pm

Is there anyone who can get me colored CV type 2 boots? Really need a full set of turquoise cv boots but blue or red would work too.

Mon May 16, 2022 6:06 pm

telford dorr wrote: One thing I've done with my boots is to periodically squirt and wipe them down with armor-all. Seems to keep them from getting cruddy and rough, by sealing out the oxygen and road crud. Did the same with ball joint and tie rod end boots. So far, so good. Will report future status...

Use this instead. Far better.

https://www.amazon.com/303-30306-Aerospace-Protectant-Furniture/dp/B000XBCURW?th=1

Mon May 16, 2022 8:08 pm

Hot Rod Ron wrote: Is there anyone who can get me colored CV type 2 boots? Really need a full set of turquoise cv boots but blue or red would work too.

I will leave it up to your to figure out if any of these actually will work:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=VW+bus+cv+boots+red

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=VW+bus+cv+boots+blue