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Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:43 pm

Case in point, due to a lousy strip of shallow mud along my driveway I got stuck and had to drag my van out with my GMC. It was only a foot wide and not even a 1/2inch deep, but, with the recent rain and a slight incline, I was toast with my DS rear wheel spinning away. When I have my tranny refreshed some kind of LSD will be going in.

Hans

Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:55 am

targis58 wrote: I don't have a good idea to compare between open diff and limited slip diff on vanagon because i had never gone on dirt when I had open diff on my vanagon. Here is a short video my 11 yr-old son edited for me. The short hill at the end of video was more challenging than it appears in the video but 2 wheel grip was very good at that time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4AkiH-uTpg

Like the video, thanks for sharing. That hill at the end looks like no big deal but you can clearly see both rear wheels in action! I am wondering why you drove through that bush going downhill?

I would love to have the budget for a LSD and would defiantly get the use out of it. I have already been through some tough terrain with my vanco tires at 50psi and my open diff and have been overly surprised at how well the van motors through it.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:55 am

First, the obvious: a comparison to a syncro is just not fair to make. If you really want to go hill climbing, then just get a syncro, a jeep or whatever.

Second, the Peloquin in my rig has only helped me get to places -- no downsides to date. Depending on where you drive, you will probably get stuck in fewer places, oh say, like a pile of wet leaves in the street or the snowy parking lot.

Last Spring I can credit the Peloquin for extending the range of travel though the sand washes of Death Valley. You'll know when the both rear wheels are working for you -- its not a sound, but a handling characteristic that's noticeably different.

On dirt or gravel roads, the initial gain in traction is most apparent. Instead of just spinning the passenger side tire when taking off from a stop, you might feel the driver's side hook up and the vehicle will tend to straighten out and go where its pointed.

I haven't tested in every condition, and I haven't had any of the scary experiences described elsewhere. Again, it's a 2WD and I've never expected the Peloquin to give the rig mountain goat capabilities.

RMW's solution sounds great, but as he pointed out, syncro transaxles are getting scarce. I do have great hopes for the reversed R&P Subaru 5 speed project.

Marc

Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:32 am

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: So what's the solution? We manufacture a plate to install a Syncro tranny in a 2wd van. You remove the nose cone, like you were installing a decoupler on a syncro. Then you mount our custom mount to the tranny, which enables you to use the stock 2wd mount. Now your 2wd van has a selectable diff locker and a granny gear. The draw backs here are obvious, you have to find a syncro tranny. But come on it's only money right...

I think this is the ultimate set up and for me would be better than a syncro.

Sounds pretty darn cool, but why would it be the ultimate setup and better for you than a syncro?

Just curious...

Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:49 am

Texxxxx wrote:
but why would it be the ultimate setup and better for you than a syncro?

Just curious...
While I am probably going with just a Peloquin in my current 2WD transaxle, I see a locking setup as a really nice alternative to a full-blown syncro for those of use who don't want the drag of the AWD front end all the time.

Better handling and mpgs on the road.. and in the usual course of driving, 2 wheels working will get most places we want/need going, anyway. Add to that less maintenance/cost with no VC and.or decoupler, front CVs and diff. etc.

If I go sport 4-wheelin.. its gonna be in a jeep. And my typical driving only wants for 4WD a couple times a yr.. mostly snow/ski trips.. This yr the timing was such that we never even saw chain control.

AWD is over-rated unless you live in wintry places.. and or have considerable unpaved terrain to cover routinely.

Syncros are very cool... but for lots of us, they just aren't necessary.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:51 am

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: So what's the solution? We manufacture a plate to install a Syncro tranny in a 2wd van. You remove the nose cone, like you were installing a decoupler on a syncro. Then you mount our custom mount to the tranny, which enables you to use the stock 2wd mount. Now your 2wd van has a selectable diff locker and a granny gear. The draw backs here are obvious, you have to find a syncro tranny. But come on it's only money right...

I think this is the ultimate set up and for me would be better than a syncro.

Again, just my .02c worth. Yes, I stock the mount. No, I don't have any syncro trannies.....for sale. I am a horder when it comes to syncro trannys

I will be installing one of the RMW mount plates on a '91 syncro tranny within a few weeks and then the whole dealio into my '85 weekender. I'll make a post when it's done. I'm looking to have it installed and though some shakedown runs before the Moab meet mid-May where I'll get to show off :lol:
I can't wait for a low gear!

Funny - my syncro transmission (with locker) is from the OP... Hi Dave. Yes, I'm still keeping it!

Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:57 am

GrindGarage wrote: targis58 wrote: I don't have a good idea to compare between open diff and limited slip diff on vanagon because i had never gone on dirt when I had open diff on my vanagon. Here is a short video my 11 yr-old son edited for me. The short hill at the end of video was more challenging than it appears in the video but 2 wheel grip was very good at that time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4AkiH-uTpg

Like the video, thanks for sharing. That hill at the end looks like no big deal but you can clearly see both rear wheels in action! I am wondering why you drove through that bush going downhill?

I would love to have the budget for a LSD and would defiantly get the use out of it. I have already been through some tough terrain with my vanco tires at 50psi and my open diff and have been overly surprised at how well the van motors through it.

The video did not show clearly but it was more steep and rutted than how it appears in the video.

There was a long rut almost like a ditch that I wanted to avoid going down hill. That s why I was brushing my van against the bush. The rut was just deep enough to raise one of the rear wheel if i put my wheel in there.

Where I was going was the little flat space on the edge of a cliff about 2500-3000ft? high. Looking at the flat space from the driver seat in the van on top of the hill was very scary to me. The last thing I would want to happen there is getting stuck with no help around or loose control of the van and roll down the cliff straight to hwy 1. :?

I am not that off-road experienced nor do I know the limit of the 2wd vanagon. So I might have been a super chicken there... :lol:

Two wheel marks on the the ground again when trying to make a three-point turn on loose dirt.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:33 am

I know it's been stated in this forum before, but it probably needs pointing out again. The Peloquin Torque Biasing Differential (TBD) is different than a Limited Slip Differential (LSD). As far as I know, no LSD exists for the Vanagon, only TBDs. The GW unit and ones offered by Daryl and others is the same Peloquin unit. There are several differences between a TBD and a LSD, but the one that stands out is a TBD requires torque (in this case throttle) for it to engage. When off throttle, the unit is inactive and you're back to an open diff. This is a benefit when coasting around a curve in slippery conditions. The LSD is always "on" for lack of a better term, and therefore more prone to the tailend sliding like the example Mike gave earlier. My Jeep XJ has a limited slip in the rear, and in 4wd AND in slick conditions the rearend occasionally (very rarely) wants to kick out as I coast to a stop or around a turn. Thats not to say that the tail-end kick out isn't possible with a TBD, just less likely due to the "open" nature of being off throttle, and of course depending upon how one drives given the conditions. Even light throttle engagement is not likely to cause loss of traction unless being driven improperly given the road conditions. If driven like an auto-crosser in poor conditions because they expect the TBD will overcome physics, then that demonstrates a lack of understanding of how the unit is intended to function. For the typical driver, not offroader, the TBD is a solid option if traction is somewhat less than optimal. I'll also echo GorgeRunner's earlier statement, a TBD is not going to make a 2wd able to compete with a Syncro - there is no comparison, period.

Lastly, obviously this thread is about experiences with the Peloquin TBD, but let's not forget the importance of having good tires. Ultimately, that's where the traction is coming from, the TBD is merely an aid. Having the right tires for the conditions is more important than any other traction aid.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:06 pm

For those that are interested in seeing how differential works, I've always found ths video to be the best explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI&feature=player_embedded

Old too...can't beat tinker toy demos!

Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:43 pm

I Bet if most people here checked the rear wheel alignment they would find find they have too much negative camber.
Correcting the negative camber with the factory adjustment, elongating the mounts or using shims will make a huge difference as to how the van turns in and straight line stability.
Experience says do the cheap easy things first before spunking a loads of cash on something you may not need.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:21 pm

1621 wrote: As far as I know, no LSD exists for the Vanagon, only TBDs. The GW unit and ones offered by Daryl and others is the same Peloquin unit.

Lastly, obviously this thread is about experiences with the Peloquin TBD, but let's not forget the importance of having good tires. Ultimately, that's where the traction is coming from, the TBD is merely an aid. Having the right tires for the conditions is more important than any other traction aid.

Above edited for brevity & I kept the bit about tires because I couldn't agree more.

There were 40% LSD's offered in many 5spd & one 4spd euro transmissions from the factory. Another reason for north american VW owners to shake their heads & wonder at the wisdom of many VW decisions.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:49 pm

davevickery wrote: The Peloquin LSD have been out for several years now and are becoming more popular in 2wd vanagons. I searched and did not see a topic specifically about people's experience with one in a 2wd Vanagon so I am creating this thread.

I will post in depth test results as I get to play with it more. Your comments are appreciated especially if you have any experiences with limited slip in a 2wd van.
...
Thanks for the posts everyone. It may take time to get more feedback from people with 2wd limited slip differentials, but the posts from people that have them are great so far.

Farfrumwork wrote:
Funny - my syncro transmission (with locker) is from the OP... Hi Dave. Yes, I'm still keeping it!

Hey Chad, that's o.k. maybe I can wait until you have finished and I'll buy your whole van, it's cheaper that way. :) If you go on the Moab trip it will be fun to see if I can keep up with you at all.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:25 pm

BlackDogVan wrote:
There were 40% LSD's offered in many 5spd & one 4spd euro transmissions from the factory

This is what I have, they are made by ZF.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:06 pm

Brickwerks wrote: BlackDogVan wrote:
There were 40% LSD's offered in many 5spd & one 4spd euro transmissions from the factory

This is what I have, they are made by ZF.

Do you run any sort of friction modifier in your trans for the LSD? I find the ZF a bit grabby at parking lot speeds.

Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:15 am

In short, yes.

Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:24 am

1621 wrote: I know it's been stated in this forum before, but it probably needs pointing out again. The Peloquin Torque Biasing Differential (TBD) is different than a Limited Slip Differential (LSD).

Yes, there's a huge difference ... but what can we do when even the mechanic installing your TBD calls it an LSD ... "for the sake of simplicity"? The verbal distinction between TBD and LSD is virtually dead in the VW world.

The helix gears of the TBD vs the friction discs of the LSD can be clearly seen in this comparison flyer: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/238566.jpg

Lock-up with a TBD is progressive with increased throttle/torque. If you experience too much TBD lock-up (as when your van "pushes" in snow), merely back off on the throttle slightly until full steering control is regained.

Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:36 am

Thanks for explaining the driving differences comparing TBD to LSD.

I'll never forget my first time driving my BMW e30 aggressively in the snow. I ran wintermaster tires that could go anywhere and the car had 20% lock LSD. I was Driving around a long sweeping corner in VT that was going slightly downhill, I would say I was doing about 50mph and the road was snow covered. The car started to understeer so i let off the throttle, big mistake the rear wheels locked up and I ended up doing a snap 720. I tried to recover but the engine stalled and when I did I was facing the oppistie direction I was heading.

I burned a tank of gas that day driving all over southern VT "learning" how to drift that thing in the snow. Was a big difference in driving compared to my A2.

Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:40 am

I'm currious how this is comming along. any more experience yet in snow, logging roads, wet grass and mud.

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:18 pm

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: I'll bet most of us interested in pursuing LSD aren't doing so for the potential offroad prowess, rather we see that the open diff keeps us from some of the more basic aspects of motoring in inclement or...FFS, driving on our very own wet lawns and muddy driveways!
EXACTLY! I loved the traction of my old Splitties. I un-love the lack of traction in my Vanagon. It would be nice to be able to drive uphill to get out of my neighborhood when there's 6" of snow on the ground... and into the driveway under those same circumstances. If it helped me with some light off-roading or getting up a wet boat ramp, all the better. A 2wd locker would be fine, but I suspect the LSD would get me in a similar league as my Splitties, less the clearance.

I've got decent M&S tires on the back, but based on the driving in snow thread I started last Winter I'm sure I could find better. I loaded the back down with 180# of sand last Winter... that helped. I still had to chain up 3 days to get in and out of the neighborhood. Now, chains are cheap, but I hate 'em and I'd like to try the LSD. All it takes is money.

pd

Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:50 pm

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: Off camber and one wheel off the ground? LSD does basically nothing.

Nothing......if the driver does nothing...

I think any 2WD driver who is currently getting stuck (because of the places they like to go) and is looking for an increase in traction will be quite satisfied with a Peloquin. Using the handbrake gets you a lot more traction to the other wheel.

Since you are asking for EXPERIENCE, here are two Peloquin stories:
======================

When I was testing my 'new' Peloquin last year, I tried this on my Syncro. I did not engage the locker because I was testing the Peloquin.

I went up over an embankment slowly, such that 1 front and 1 rear wheels lifted off the ground. Of course, the wheels spun and the van stopped. I pulled the handbrake and the moved forward readily until the wheels touched down again. A 2WD can do this too with the handbrake (also with an open diff but not so well). The Peloquin throws a lot more power to the other wheel if the spinning wheel encounters even the slightest resistance. You can even activate it by dragging the footbrake (on a syncro it works, not sure about 2WD).

======================

My brother put a Peloquin in his 2WD because he has a steep, long gravel driveway. It has completely cured the rear wheel 'chatter' on the uphill. It has also cured the washboarding that the old, open diff was creating in the gravel (messing up his driveway). With the Peloquin it climbs the hill smoothly without breaking traction.