TheSamba.com :: View topic - Subaru Exhaust headers

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:42 am

Another great source - thanks.

I think every time I get an answer - I get 4 more questions...

Looking at the OutFront Motorsports header compared to the RJES manifold - the price difference is not huge (about $30). One is cast stainless steel and one is not.

My instinct tells me the cast is nicer - it looks nicer, and appears to be a heftier build. What are the pros and cons of a header vs a manifold?

Still working on getting my existing header off - just about got it - but the left and right halves are stuck together, and I can't quite get any leverage...I'll keep you updated...

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:26 am

candyman wrote: I see a stock vanagon mustache bar in that pic. My understanding is KEP header does not work with vanagon mustache bar, unless something has changed? I have KEP setup on my syncro and no way would the mustache bar fit

KEP header works with a Smallcar engine carrier and moustache bar (2WD). The muffler is pushed right for the Smallcar muffler mount so you might need an additional muffler brace, but I used only one of the Smallcar mounts on a vanagon muffler.

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:13 am

So with the KEP header fits with the SC setup on a 2wd, do you see it being a problem on a syncro ?, where the mustache bar standoffs are longer.

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:19 am

I'm not sure if I have the original mustache bar - I know the engine bumpers (rubber things between engine and holder) say Subaru on them. What I think is the original mustache bar - appears to just support the skid plate and the rear heat shield.

I got the old header off. I got the gaskets off - cleaned the head surface. This was in not too bad shape.

One of the nuts was missing - and I could see there was definitely an exhaust leak at that point. One of the studs had been replaced with a bolt.

Two of the studs were loose - ie they could wiggle a little. Overall - I think three studs need work.

I'm pretty sure that means Helicoil time? I can also see the threads are fairly worn on the holes. I've never used one of these before. Do I drill the hole, or are they designed to work with existing worn threads? Some direction on this appreciated - when I look it up online, it seems like all the examples are starting with a solid block of steel.

When I put new studs in, do you use threadlocker to hold them in place, or do you use anti-seize - so they are easy to remove? And will any generic stud work (as long as the threads are correct?) or do you need a special one for this application.

Thanks for your help. At this point I may get existing manifold welded up - while I research my options. My local mechanic thinks he can weld it up, although he has not seen it yet. I'll take it over to him tomorrow or Tuesday.

Just heard back from Tom Shiels - he is no longer making the exhaust headers.

Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:40 am

Can you post pics of the complete header and the moustache bar?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:21 pm

Ok - to be clear - this is my first non-aircooled VW. So what I think is the mustache bar, may actually be called something else.

here are pics of the header -

And no, I do not have an invisibility cloak, it has been removed from the vehicle.

Here are 2 pics of what I think is called the mustache bar. Currently it appears to just be used to support the skid plate and exhaust (both removed before pic)

here is a pic of my skid plate installed. When looking at this closely - it appears to have been modified where the header crosses in front of the engine. My first syncro -so I don't know what an original one looks like.

Lastly pics of what appears to be the engine supports. I believe this a KEP engine mount.

Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:25 pm

Thanks for posting those pics
Looks like they refabbed the skid plate and the mustache bar to work together. Not a bad solution. What is your ground clearance from skid plate down?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 pm

I've got my skid plate off now, but ground clearance was pretty good - actually very good, as PO raised the vanagon 2". I can't give you a measurement now as the plate is off. but I'll check it when I put it back together.

I would estimate it at 11" based on the bar to ground clearance (13") and hole location on skid plate (2" above bottom of plate).

Do I have the terms labelled correctly? IE is the bar behind my engine the mustache bar?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:27 pm

That looks like a KEP header to me. You can use Helicoils or Timeserts. Drill the hole out with the appropriate drill bit, re-tap it for the coil insert to match the replacement stud threads.

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:27 pm

thanks - so it looks like i already have a KEP header.

The current studs are m10x1.25 (Fine thread). I apologize for the stupid question, but do I get a helicoil of that size?

Like this one - https://tinyurl.com/y8bjaazk
IE with Helicoil - am I getting a repair of the same thread, or are you drilling and re-tapping to the next size up? And when you use a helicoil - do you use threadlok to hold it in place?

Thanks again...

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:05 pm

Same size. The coil has Locktite applied to the outside before threading it in. I did one in the head for the intake manifold. You can make a 90 degree corner guide out of wood to keep the drill straight when drilling. You might find a kit at your local auto parts store.

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:35 am

just to update - thanks for the help.

Local mechanic welded manifold back together. I painted with some sort of header high temp (2000 degree paint)

If I need a new one - I think I can go with KEP header

I had to drill out one of the exhaust stud holes, re-tapped, and installed helicoil. 1st time didn't really work. Helicoil didn't go into hole for some reason. (obviously user error)

2nd time - helicoil went in, but broke when it was about 3/4 of the way in. I thought it should still work - but exhaust stud would not grab it. I've got to get my yearly inspection - so when on the lift - I'll ask mechanic if he has any ideas.

I was hoping this was going to solve my "check engine light" but did not. Time for another thread...

Again - many thanks for all the posts and info on this thread.

Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 am

Looking at a header and got a picture of it. Zoomed in on the welds.
These don't look good to me and I'm not a welder. Look like almost no penetration on the tubing.
What do you guys think?

Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:43 am

I like the idea of using the mustache bar to good a heat shield

Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:53 am

mtnhome wrote: Looking at a header and got a picture of it. Zoomed in on the welds.
These don't look good to me and I'm not a welder. Look like almost no penetration on the tubing.
What do you guys think?

I am a welder and they look good to me. It's painted so you can't see the heat affected zone, I see the welds are convex and may look cold but mig welds can build like that and still be as solid as a convex tig fillet. Maybe, over time and heat cycle expansion and contraction cracks may form at the edge of a tall bead but I wouldn't assume no penetration there.
I mean yeah you can do a flatter bead but I just don't see a red flag here.
I have done several muffler repair welds for friends and my bosses friends and never had a complaint.

Could be that section at the Y might be a an issue but that could be a 2nd pass..I'd say run it and see how it does. Sure looks a lot better than it did.

Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:49 am

Thanks Crankey!
I was just remembering from shop class many years ago about cold welds having that convex look because of little penetration. Guys would just pile up the weld on top of the material.
I'm thinking of going with the latest version of the Small Car SS header. I can't seem to find any real complaints about the current version.

Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:52 am

If your really concerned, wire brush and solvent some of the paint off the welds that bother you and find someone with a tig to melt the beads in a little nicer.
The mechanic who welded it may be a lot more mechanic than welder. I don't think he did a crap job to be sloppy, I'm sure, like most people he wouldn't want you coming back with a problem, but did the best he could with skills, tools and parts he has.
He may have gone with a colder weld because the exhaust tubing was rusting so thin it's hard not to just blow holes in it trying to weld it.
Most repairs I did came from a friend, home based mechanic with a customer trying to eek out a few more miles from a system that really needed replacing.

Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:20 pm

Actually, thats a new header, not a repair. That's why I thought those welds didn't look so great for something built on a jig in a shop.

I appreciate your feedback!

Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:33 am

it looks like you folks may have confused my header (used, cracked etc) with the new one that mtnhome got.

Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:23 pm

Hi,

I’m currently planning a Subarugears manual transmission installation. Does anyone know if a KEP header will work with a Subarugears transmission ?

I think i read someone said there interference between a KEP header with the Subaru transmission.

Thanks

Mathieu