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Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:04 pm

cee wrote: Zeitgeist 13 wrote: I'm sure someone who profits from that particular offbrand approach will appreciate the irrelevant digression.

I take it you're referring to my post? Too many details in my digression for the topic?
The stock WBX by vw is not a good engine, in my opinion. If it is re-worked to be more reliable and provide more hp, then maybe it is a good choice for some.

I'm a bad person.

Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:12 pm

A downgrade to YAECT was looming dangerously up in the headlights. Thanks for taking the wheel ZG!

Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:14 pm

My WBX made me do it

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:08 pm

why all the hate for a hardworking, slightly quirky, engine that's been around for so long pushing one heavy assed vehicle? Especially from people who swaped a boxer for a boxer.

The cheapest Subaru convert, that I found, uses an un-rebuilt 75k-100K engine from 1990-94. Not all that much more technically advanced in my opinion. Not to mention that I have not seen too many converted Vanagons selling for more then the conversion price.

My 88 westy has over 233k on the original waterboxer (head gaskets done around 190k) and I saw 19-21 mpg on my last trip. Oh, I agree that it is under powered by today's standards. Just think about when these things were built. Highway speeds were 55 not 65,75 or 85(S. UT has a section of I15 at 85).

I grew up in VW buses and Vanagons and I don't think the waterboxer killed the Vanagon. VW was clearly going in a different direction and those little Toyota Vans(I used to call them Smurf Vans) were giving the Vanagon a challenge they never had before.

Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:49 am

Love my WBX! Has been totally reliable and I have seen 22 mpg on my last trip of 1100 miles which were 70% off road in rural Nevada .

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:15 pm

The pie in the sky idea that you opt for a swap and then all your issues with reliability are somehow gone is bunk. Status post swap i have spent more time wrenching and trouble shooting then i did in the last ten years with my stock engine, i did my homework, took my time, and still had to deal with a lot of issues.

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:28 pm

But the pie is soo tempting, it's a religion around here. Don't read too many threads, because they almost all end that way, and I am guilty for wanting the conversion too. No innocence on this end of the internets. Just no trigger pulling....yet.

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:29 pm

Tempting for sure, hell i did it and i did what i said i never would, i did a suby instead of a vannistan. Why, because i thought it would be a cheaper option.

Then came a harsh dose of reality, a used engine can hide many issues, also gone was all that knowlegde that i had put together about that little stock engine and i was starting from scratch.

The RMW kit remians a very good choice, but the diy reality is that you are usually trying to save money, hence a used engine...so now after redoing the rear main because i got it wrong the first time, pulling the engine again for a top end job due to very high oil use much more time and money spent than originally anticipated, a year later i have an engine that is faster and gets better mileage , BUT, would i say it is more reliable than my engine i pulled and sold to a guy has been running it ever since with no problems...hmmm

AND for full disclosure i have spent more money on my "cheap" diy swap then if i would have bought the vannistan unit and dropped it in in a day.

This is neither a endorsement for or argument against a swap but just my story.

Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:14 pm

dspieg wrote: I bought an '86 Vanagon GL with 116K miles over the Memorial Day weekend, from the original owner. The car had gotten very little use (no more than 500 miles/year) for about the past 5 years; and was garage-kept most or all of its life.

Three days and less than 25 miles after my purchase, the engine seized during a 'test commute' to work, and is now undergoing a total rebuild. The shop doing the work is a trusted nearby foreign car shop that has been working on my Italian cars (Fiats, Alfas, and a Lancia) for years, but has little or no experience with Vanagons other than that one of their mechanics owns one.

As you might guess, I'm pissed off about having to essentially double the investment in my Vanagon right off the bat, but I'm trying to rationalize the blown motor with the argument that (a) at 100K miles even a well-maintained Wasserboxer motor is probably shot or close to it; and (b) five years of near-inactivity are bad for any engine, especially one with the known design flaws of the VW motor.

Comments?

Danke,
Dave Spiegelthal
Centreville, Virginia

I have a doka with a 2.1 Dj and a Westy with a 1.9 afn tdi. I drive the 2.1 every day for work and I hate it, its thirsty as hell, under powered, and sounds stupid. I love the TDI and it has more power than I can use, is good on fuel and sounds nice.

Jed

Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:08 pm

Your DoKa reminds me of a girl that I dated in college....... :lol: :lol:

Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:12 pm

buildyourown wrote:
I would wager 500 miles/year is close to average for those of us with campers.

Seriously? I don't think so, Tim! ;)

I put 10,000 all purpose miles a year on my van, so there'd have to an awful lot of Westies sitting up on blocks year-round to to get the average usage down that far...

Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:43 pm

/\ /\ /\ Yup, I rage mine year round, 10-15k miles a year.

Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:05 pm

7k - 10k year round of tireless service, for me and the family, always runs... might not be pretty, but it's my bus..

a WBX, very forgiving...

Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:32 pm

Original Poster here......

It's been 1-1/2 years since I bought my '87 GL, of which 6 months total have been spent in the shop -- first getting the engine rebuilt (4 months) and then another 2 months getting it re-rebuilt after it spun #3 rod bearing three months/4K miles later. The shop has never told me why the bearing spun nor have they verbally taken responsibility, but although they threatened to charge me MORE money (on top of the $6K+ for the 'first' rebuild) they haven't, and at this point the statute of limitations is up and they WON'T get any more money from me.

Now, with about 10K miles on the rebuilt/re-rebuilt engine, I'm finally starting to get comfortable with it and no longer worrying about imminent failure. It runs great and has plenty of power (seriously); I may be able to attribute a bit of that to the remarkable hollow-ness of the catalytic converter and the Magnaflow muffler just downstream.

So, now at 126K miles. I pledge to the Samba that, if the engine reaches 200K miles without any major problems, I will retract my posts lambasting the Wasserboxer. But not until then.

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:08 pm

dspieg wrote: Original then another 2 months getting it re-rebuilt after it spun #3 rod bearing three months/4K miles later.

So, now at 126K miles. I pledge to the Samba that, if the engine reaches 200K miles without any major problems, I will retract my posts lambasting the Wasserboxer. But not until then.
My view (worth $0.02) If it doesn't, it's likely the rebuilder's fault, not the WBX's fault.

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:17 pm

vanagonjr wrote:

My view (worth $0.02) If it doesn't, it's likely the rebuilder's fault, not the WBX's fault.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto VW the things which are VW's

Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:54 am

JED THE SPREAD wrote: I have a doka with a 2.1 Dj and a Westy with a 1.9 afn tdi. I drive the 2.1 every day for work and I hate it, its thirsty as hell, under powered, and sounds stupid. I love the TDI and it has more power than I can use, is good on fuel and sounds nice.

Your DJ needs help, mate.

We've got a Hightop Westy with the original, closing on 200k mile, DJ in it.

It's powerful enough that the main restriction on back roads is the weight and bulk, and the main restriction on motorway cruising is aerodynamics. It'll play the traffic light grand prix sufficiently well to get ahead of Joe Average's Toyota Beige as and when required. OK, I've not tried a 1.9 - but the JX we drove back-to-back when we bought it was really rather pedestrian compared.

It's no thirstier (24ish MPiG = 20MPuG, real-world average of mixed roads) than some of the cars I've had previously with the same capacity engine in. (Yes, they were considerably quicker - but they were a damn sight less comfy to kip in, too)

As for the sound, I like it. A nice, smooth, turbine-like woosh becoming audible as you give it berries, almost inaudible if you bimble. Better than a tractor lump drowning conversation out... <grin>

Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:32 am

4 mo for engine rebuild??, spun #3, wonder how that item was addressed??

Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:07 pm

dspieg wrote:

underpowered toasters-on-wheels

:lol:

Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:49 pm

dspieg wrote: Original Poster here......

It's been 1-1/2 years since I bought my '87 GL, of which 6 months total have been spent in the shop -- first getting the engine rebuilt (4 months) and then another 2 months getting it re-rebuilt after it spun #3 rod bearing three months/4K miles later. The shop has never told me why the bearing spun nor have they verbally taken responsibility, but although they threatened to charge me MORE money (on top of the $6K+ for the 'first' rebuild) they haven't, and at this point the statute of limitations is up and they WON'T get any more money from me.

Now, with about 10K miles on the rebuilt/re-rebuilt engine, I'm finally starting to get comfortable with it and no longer worrying about imminent failure. It runs great and has plenty of power (seriously); I may be able to attribute a bit of that to the remarkable hollow-ness of the catalytic converter and the Magnaflow muffler just downstream.

So, now at 126K miles. I pledge to the Samba that, if the engine reaches 200K miles without any major problems, I will retract my posts lambasting the Wasserboxer. But not until then.

How much so far$$$

How much time lost, how much psychiatric help $$$ :-)

If any GOOD mechanic can get you on the road for a decent amount of money doing a nice sealing and top end... GOOD! If you pass the 5-6K$ mark for a rebuilt.... I say to you a big ouff.

After 5K start thinking about a new kind of powerplant, TDI, Bostig or Subaru. All of them will stop pissing you off in the morning.. when with he stock engine you sadly see all kind of smoke, noise or hesitation.

Take some mechanical courses, join some Yahoo list, make mechanical friends here or elsewhere and GET YOU "A PIECE OF MIND" engine.

DIY mechanic can get a very nice conversion done for 4-6K$ EASILY!

The real problem now is NOT the engine it's his age!

The VW boxer engine will rarely let you completely down.. it will piss you off with all kind of little stuff mostly due to a 25yo injection/wiring.

But with time you will go crazy an be so scared to travel more then 100 miles from home.