TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:22 pm

Which isn't a big deal if you change the belt at it's interval...

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:47 pm

I could be wrong, I was wrong about the center timing cover (sorry, my ej22t engine is not presently at my house, and the center cover between ej25 and ej22 NA's are the same), but I thought the interference involved in an EJ25D engine was between the exhaust and intake valves and not actually between the valves and the pistons.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:56 pm

From the EJ25D Subaru Service Manual:

Intake and exhaust camshafts for this DOHC
engine can be independently rotated with timing
belts removed. As can be seen from the
figure, if intake and exhaust valves are lifted
simultaneously, their heads will interfere with
each other, resulting in bent valves.
B2M1392A
I When timing belts are not installed, four
camshafts are held at the “zero-lift” position,
where all cams on camshafts do not push
intake and exhaust valves down. (Under this
condition, all valves remain unlifted.)
I When camshafts are rotated to install timing
belts, #2 intake and #4 exhaust cam of left-hand
camshafts are held to push their corresponding
valves down. (Under this condition, these
valves are held lifted.) Right-side camshafts
are held so that their cams do not push valves
down.
I Left-hand camshafts must be rotated from
the “zero-lift” position to the position where
timing belt is to be installed at as small an
angle as possible, in order to prevent mutual
interference of intake and exhaust valve heads.
I Do not allow camshafts to rotate in the direction
shown in the figure as this causes both
intake and exhaust valves to lift
simultaneously, resulting in interference with
their heads.

Seems to me that only the heads really make it an interference engine in this case

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Not all 2.5's are the same. The DOHC and may be 2 different versions of the later phase 2. Some the piston stick out past the block at TDC and others don't.

There are 2 different head gasket thicknesses then, thick for the blocks were the pistons stick out and thin for the others.

Jeff

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:21 pm

Here's a quick video I made, giving an idea of the acceleration in my 2WD Westy:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zb8qtjzhsdkhcEyPg6vbbEGvQw_CZv4O6YeyBizzoGE?feat=directlink

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:27 pm

presslab wrote: I wanna see some pics of that 911 muffler on there. :wink:
This ricey muffler will be epic on the truck. Unfortunately I have run out of time to do all of the welding and mods to run it before the trip but here is a sneak peek. :lol:

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:27 pm

WOW, Can't wait to see it in my Bug :shock:

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:33 pm

I rolled around the timing gear on one of my heads and nothing contacted. My piston sits under the block at TDC due to the shorter EJ22 rods.

Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:53 pm

That exhaust tip must add 20 ft-lbs just by itself! :D

I drove the van to Pillsbury this weekend. Nice power: A/C blasting, and 100 F temps and I could still hold 65 in 4th up the hill out of Cloverdale. I found the redline address and bumped it up to 6900 RPM.

But it seems I'm on borrowed time, the extra torque has cracked my 3-4 slider hub. It's not too bad, just a bit of a grind coming out of 4th. I need to hurry up on my 4EAT conversion. Anyone know of a good machinist in the North bay, CA?

Here's my RomRaider XML file and the current version of my modified "F9" ROM:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8FzJlhz-BzBYmExVDBhOUFRZjg
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8FzJlhz-BzBaDRQbzBCbHhydW8

Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:46 am

Had to do my 500 mile oil change here in OR at a drive through lube place. I looked at the oil and it looked fine and I gave them another WIX filter to replace the filter that they took off rather than their house brand unit.
It is amazing what they try to upsell and up charge you for at these places- (after oil change)4wd, that oil change costs more- why, you didn't do anything to the running gear?? alright we can take off the upcharge. You should do a coolant flush though(just put in 500 miles ago), you need new windshield wipers. :roll:
The motor is running strong and pulls well through the headwinds in the flats which is usually a issue with the truck since the profile is taller than most.
I did have to downshift on the 6% and 7% grades but I wasn't surprised since I am overgeared with the 215/75/15 tires and the aerodynamic drag of a 8' car profile makes the job harder on the engine.
The motor upgrade wasn't OMG but it was the improvement that I was looking for. I was letting my 13 year old drive up a gravel incline and he was lugging the motor so I told him to goose the throttle or we would get stuck and the motor came alive and threw us up the rest of the small grade. I am not going to be racing any 1.8t equipped vans but the torque of the motor makes the van much easier to drive in the hills and offroad where the ej22 needed a little more finess to do the same.
I will have several thousand miles on the motor by the time I am done trekking up throught the rest of OR. and WA. in the next 2 weeks.

Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:24 pm

Nicely done! Congrats. 8)

Do you notice any pinging? What octane are you using? I wonder what your CR ended up at.

I have a theory that the frankenmotor adds torque not just due to compression ratio or displacement but because the timing is effectively more advanced than it was, but it's just a theory.

With a SSM cable you can look at address 0x1353 (IAM) and if the ECU is pulling timing it will be less than 0x10. Actually it starts at 8 from ECU reset and will go up or down from there after learning. Before tuning my ECU, it would pull IAM all the way to zero in just one short drive. Now after tuning it stays fully advanced at 0x10.
http://evoscan.com/evoscan-gps-obdii-cables/detail...u-vehicles

Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:48 pm

I haven't figured the final CR yet since i was so pressed to get this done for the trip. I am running mid grade right now but i have been taking it easy since it was still in the break in period. I haven't noticed any pinging as of yet but later on the trip when i start running the revs on the hills we will find out.
I am happy with this combination so far.
BTW these motors are dead easy to build from the ground up if you have ever built a aircooled VW engine. Buying a hybrid cometic head gasket over modding a EJ25 multilayer HG like i had to do is the way to go as well.

Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:34 am

First of all thank you to the guys that went before me. I stand on the shoulders of giants.

Blew the head gaskets in my SVX, and since I am now broke and living in CA I decided to go with a 2.2 swap.

Found a '93 Legacy 2.2 donor car. Bought it. Smogged it. Stripped it.

Found a brand new EJ257 short block. Bought

Pulled SVX plant. FOR SALE CHEAP!

Sold Header.

Stripped SVX harness. Sold it.

Modified Small car SVX mount to fit 2.2.

Found rebuilt 2.2 heads w/ cams at nwcylinderheads on fleabay. Bought.

Read countless blogs with a zillion stupid tuners chiming in on "What they are going to do, blah blah blah"...really makes me want to "Key" every WRX I ever see just in case it is one of theirs...

Talked to Ken, he really seems to know his Subaru stuff. He recommends the 11mm pump and a stock OEM 1998 Head Gasket and says you can mill the coolant port on the head very easily to mate perfectly with the 2.5 block.

Next on order list; 11mm Oil Pump, Cometic Gaskets (.040), Timing Belt Idlers and Tensioner, Gasket set, A.R.P. head studs.

???Not sure which tensioner to use yet, apparently I can use either but the new one requires a backing plate I do not possess.???

Later; Shorten and increase capacity oil pan, possibly Delta cams but probably not.

May go with a rear radiator setup.

As far as i can tell the 2.2 phI is non interference, in 97 they decreased the cutout on the pistons making them interference. (Never seen one, just what I read)they also changed the valvetrain at this time. I believe these are known as 2.2l phII.

The 257 pistons are dished so logic says this should be a non interference engine. It should also run perfectly fine on 87 octane. It could also fairly easily be turbocharged later. From what I understand the crank and rods on this motor are forged and should be good up to 600 hp. Forged pistons will allegedly take that number up to 800+. in 2008 (I believe) Subaru went with an 11mm Oil pump, so that is something to look for.

From what I have read this is also a great motor to build with the standard NA 2.5 long block, but I would definitely run the thickest head gasket available, or as someone said Ken said, run 2.2 Connecting rods.

There was a question about this modification. (running 2.2 rods) Think about it, the 2.5 throw is still in the crank, you're just not throwing it as far toward the head. This increases combustion chamber volume and decreases compression, allowing lower octane fuel and (some say) greater reliability and lower HP. We are going for torque, not HP, if you want both, you make your decisions based on the given information. Here in Malibu 8.5:1-9.5:1 seems ideal for my needs. If I lived in Denver I'd go 9.5:1-10.5:1

I would post Combustion chamber volume but I am not equipped to do any measurements. With these pistons I suspect it will be huge, will run great on 87 octane and be very reliable.

??? My current dilemma (besides the timing idler tensioner) is what to do for exhaust. I feel like all the headers currently available have too large of primary tubes and I am not overly impressed with their collector arrangements (they collect right next to very tight bends and the collectors are a bit drastic in their angle) I would like slightly smaller primary pipes with true tri-y long collectors further away from the flange.???

In my experience, motors built for torque prefer smallish primary pipes.

Neil

Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:39 am

I posted the part number for the 11 mm pump on page 6. I was lucky enough to find a 2nd 11mm fuji oil pump cheap on ebay for my other conversion.
Like i said in a previous post i would buy the hybrid cometic head gasket over modding the stock head gasket. It is easy to mod the head gasket with a dremel tool and the correct tip but cleaning it up is a PITA.

My hybrid motor worked flawlessly on the recent 3000 mile test drive and does nicely hopping over the hill(hwy 17) to go to work.

Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:55 pm

Syncrodoka, I've been wanting to ask since you've had this running for awhile now....
Any noticeable difference in MPG, either better or worse?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:45 am

I don't check MPG.
I expect that it is similar to what it was before, certainly hasn't changed noticeably one way or another.
I do have a habit of driving faster that would affect MPG now though...

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:13 am

Thanks for the updates 'doka. Well done! =D>

I'm looking forward to a little extra umph here at altitude.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:14 pm

For ease of build I would do another one with the 2.5L rods not the 2.2 rods of mine. The higher CR of that combination would get even more pep out if the motor.
The cometic hybrid head gaskets instead of my modded stock versions would be a something that i would have definately preferred. I ran out of time and did it the hard way to get on the road.

Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:37 pm

So I have a early ej25d, blew the HGs awhile ago and since lost some parts to the heads. may have scored a 93 legacy to steal the 2.2 heads from. My question is will my wiring harness work with the older heads? I believe I have to use the 2.2 intake, anything else I should know. I really need to get my van back on the road

Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:50 am

I used everything from the EJ22E engine except for the short block. I'm not sure about the EJ25D compatibility. I know the EJ25D and later EJ22E use the same red-top injectors.

I did a mileage test on mostly flat roads, going around 70 MPH, with a few brief stints to 80 MPH. I got 21.1 MPG.

On dirt roads it's a pleasure to drive. Although I don't like to load it that low due to oil pressure, it has significant power even from 1000 RPM, when I needed to go that slow because of my gearing.