TheSamba.com :: View topic - Oil cooler seal identification / which one do I need? Help!

Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:21 pm

Ok Just enjoyed a nice oil waterfall on my new motor, once the pressure built up :x
So let's dicuss oil cooler seals/coolers. Who can identify what goes to what, and maybe Glen will throw this in the FAQ.

Still trying to figure out why mine blow out, please see newest post below

This is the info someone PM'd me- Anyone else?
From left to right

-Tapered flanged is a replacement seal with small 8mm on one side and large 10mm on the other for use when you have a mismatch such as large 10mm passage oil cooler fitted on a small 8mm passage case or a small passage oil cooler fitted on a large oil passage case.

-Thin flanged fit all large 10mm oil passage type 1 cases and large 10mm oil passage coolers including the dog house style. so in theory 70 and newer..

-Thick flanged fit early type 3 small 8mm oil passage. I'm not sure of the year interchange on these. (is this also doghouse only??, what about non doghouse cooler on a type3 case?)

-Tube style, small 8mm diameter, fits all type 1 stock small 8mm oil passage cases and small 8mm oil passage oil coolers. So in theory 69 and older..

Where do the spacers go, seems to be differing opinions on this

Large 10mm diameter oil passage

Small 8mm diameter oil passage

All doghouse coolers are large 10mm diameter passage so you either need the flanged large diameter seal, or the flanged large 10mm to small 8mm tapered seal, depending on the passage size of your case.

2 sets of seals for the 10mm doghouse setup

Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:18 pm

I always used the ones that matched the inside diameter of the oil passages in case....

Dale

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:19 am

I'm running a type 3 case (looks just like my type 1 cases?) with small oil passage and a type 1 oil cooler. Would the seals used be any different then a type 1 oil cooler on a type 1 case? These orange tube type seals didn't hold. I put them on dry, would that effect it?

So I was told to use the thick flanged orange ones. But when I tighten the thick flange seals down they squish out the sides. Do I need spacers? Different seals? or?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:42 am

Found this that basically says use spacers only when going from 8 to 10, non doghouse only. But I am going 8 to 8 non doghouse which is not shown....

Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:39 pm

Kommercial wrote: I'm running a type 3 case (looks just like my type 1 cases?) with small oil passage and a type 1 oil cooler. Would the seals used be any different then a type 1 oil cooler on a type 1 case? These orange tube type seals didn't hold. I put them on dry, would that effect it?

So I was told to use the thick flanged orange ones. But when I tighten the thick flange seals down they squish out the sides. Do I need spacers? Different seals? or?

Well, I haven't had a leaky cooler on my two in a zillion years (I now use this http://bugpack.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=99 on my 1835 with external oil cooler)

Any O-ring, seal, etc., has to squish to make a good seal. But oversquishing/tightening is just as bad. You have to have the oil cooler tighten, and even. I've done these on all sorts of engines decades ago, and I always felt more comfortable with seals with flanges. After looking at the photos, I think the orange ones with the flanges would be best for you, and they must squish some. You need to look and see if spacers would help keep this level/even when you tighten. You can re-use the new ones you just tried and got shaky with because the squished, they're not 20 years old and heat-set !!!

Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:46 pm

Just removed and stripped the motor and lightly greased the tube type oil seals and put it back in. (put them in dry last time). Niagra falls again! What am I missing here? The seals stuck up about a 1/16-1/8" out of the case just like the other motor I just tore down that didn't leak. The oil cooler is a stock 1600. I looked at some other oil coolers I have and the pressings in the bottom of the cooler were sharper as opposed to the one I'm using but other then that I don't see a difference. I can feel the seals touching before I torque it down. Anyone?

If I use a flange type seal, the oil cooler would never touch the case in this instance and then how would I be able to properly torque or maintain torque?? As I said I tried them but they were distorted and gushed out the sides of the oil cooler when tight, definetly not right.

Will an issue with the relief valve cause the seals to "blow" by just turning it over?? It hasn't even started yet.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:52 pm

Motor stripped again ready for plan Z. Any ideas? I blew through the cooler (as well as solvent soaked it for days before) so being plugged is not the issue..... blew through the case passages as well. Found some taller non flanged seals in an old motor. Still plyable, guess I'll try those...

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:35 pm

:idea: Okay my pesos worth....drop them and a magnet will pick them up.

When doing engines in Calif The small black seals were for the early 36/40hp engines.

The THICK T3 seals were for the T3 case and T3 oil cooler and adding the copper washer to the two bolts and top stud......NO leaks.

Then there was the early cooler to the later case needing the GREEN step seal as I called them.....went up or down as the need arose....did work.

The later case and newer oil cooler used the orange/red color seal that fit either way and I would use the copper washer to keep from Squishing the seal (learned that the hard way).

The case hole did not matter as to size as long as the seal dropped in snug w/o moving around.....use the three copper washers and it was a GO.

The seals should NEVER be Squished as the evidence shows the results.

(VW mechanic/engine builder/parts house owner of 28yrs)

Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:17 pm

Trying to see if my oil cooler is leaking because I over tightened it (most likely) or because I used the wrong ones.

What's lead me to believe that I used the right seals is that they didn't leak at all until I drove it on a hot day for about 4 hours. No leaks before that.

Some pictures I took while installing the oil cooler originally. Wish I would have taken one of the case but that should come soon

Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:33 pm

Do you have a caliper? My eyecrometer says it's about 9mm. You need to make sure you have the proper seals on your case.

Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:56 pm

So in essence we are measure the diameter of the holes in the oil cooler the holes in the case and putting the seal that matches it on either side correct?

Like if my holes in case measure 8 and the holes in my oil cooler have a diameter of 10 I would put a seal that matches with those diameters?

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:43 pm

Where exactly do the washers go. I am putting the seals that go from 8mm(engine case) to 10mm(non doghouse oil cooler) wondering if I should put spacers based on the diagram above but not sure exactly where they go

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:50 pm

Scorcho wrote: Where exactly do the washers go. I am putting the seals that go from 8mm(engine case) to 10mm(non doghouse oil cooler) wondering if I should put spacers based on the diagram above but not sure exactly where they go

You are doing the top left diagram from above, no spacers, if the tab on the cooler is bent, straighten it first, then snug it down evenly

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:54 pm

Ok awesome didn't notice the little logos on the diagram to indicate what cars!! Now it makes complete sense thanks a lot!

Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:48 pm

Very helpful information, thank you

I think my issue is not covered here:

My bus has what I believe to be a Type 3 case due to engine number starting with U0.

I don’t know what the “D” o the “15” mean on the engine part number.

The oil cooler passages are mismatched, one is 8mm and the other is 10mm.

The previous owner had installed 8mm seals on both holes.

Is it ok to run this case in a Bus or should I just get one with both 10mm and 10mm?

If I use this case, should I use one 10mm seal and one 8mm seal?

Thank you!!

Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:17 pm

If it helps you the green ones are these: https://vwnos.com/111-198-029-2
I have them marked as for single port. Part number for the kit is: 111 198 029

Here are some others that look like your red ones: https://vwnos.com/021-117-151-a

In your picture to the far right. They come in white and black. Some or longer/shorter than the others: https://vwnos.com/111-117-151

Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:18 pm

The green are to transition from 10mm to 8mm ports.

Example: 36hp case with aftermarket cooler

Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:24 pm

heimlich wrote: If it helps you the green ones are these: https://vwnos.com/111-198-029-2
I have them marked as for single port. Part number for the kit is: 111 198 029

Here are some others that look like your red ones: https://vwnos.com/021-117-151-a

In your picture to the far right. They come in white and black. Some or longer/shorter than the others: https://vwnos.com/111-117-151

In my case I have different size holes

Would it be ok to put an 8 to 10 mm in the small hole and a 10 to 10mm in the big hole? Not sure if widths are the same

Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:40 pm

think we have an optical illusion here...yes obviously the hole for the 2 oil passages are different sizes...but it looks to me that the shoulders for the holes where the cooler seals fit are the same size...you need to measure them to verify that...if they are the same you do not need 2 different seals...if you are using the offset adapter for a doghouse cooler you just need the normal red seals...verify that the block hole shoulder is the same diameter as the second step in the cooler adapter...you havent shown enough of the engine but i do not believe you have a type III block...the casting number you show on the side is 211 (bus)...the font of that engine # does not appear to be original VW...it was probably stamped on there by a rebuilder...type III engine numbers arent even in that location as they would be hidden by the fan housing...they are stamped onto the TOP of the block parallel to the case seam near the fuel pump

Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:41 pm

volksworld wrote: think we have an optical illusion here...yes obviously the hole for the 2 oil passages are different sizes...but it looks to me that the shoulders for the holes where the cooler seals fit are the same size...you need to measure them to verify that...if they are the same you do not need 2 different seals...if you are using the offset adapter for a doghouse cooler you just need the normal red seals...i

I measured and they’re different