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Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:33 pm

Before I pour oil all over the driveway...what happens if you run the engine for a shrt period at idle with no valve covers? I want to try a different hydro lifter adjustment, but don't want a puddle under the car....

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:58 pm

Well, I've never intentionally run one without a valve cover, but I did see one fall off in a parking lot many years ago when a guy bought some chrome ones from us and installed them in the lot. He did n't get the spring clip on one side and oil was everywhere right away.

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:05 pm

Do you have heater boxes? If so Don't!

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:26 pm

I had a 1960 MGA and it was a simple 4 engine. We would adjust the valves while the engine was running. You could feel the gap as you pulled the gauge. Crazy trying to keep the screw driver on the screw but it was not as hard as you may think. Almost no oil splatter. On a bug, not a good idea. Had some massive leaks after a valve adj. from a miss aligned cover. You get about a mile till the engine gets hot and the guy behind you thinks your car is on fire. If I ran heater boxes that smell would be forever.

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:52 pm

We used to do that too but all of the engines we did that way had the head on top!

Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:00 pm

That's what I figured...heads being so low on the Vw layout. Just hoping against hope. Guess I'll have to do it the hard way.

Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Don't do it , you will have a giant mess and no oil returning to the pickup tube

Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:13 pm

Quote: Guess I'll have to do it the hard way.

Putting the valve covers back on is the hard way?

Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:16 pm

bowtiebug wrote: Don't do it , you will have a giant mess and no oil returning to the pickup tube

If your going to post at least make sure you understand what your saying. There will be oil returning to the sump and plenty of it. :roll:

To the OP, do you have an old valve cover laying around you can cut the top off of? You could then clip the bottom portion back on and catch the majority of the splash oil. It will make a little mess, but it's manageable.
Another helpful trick is to lift the car up slightly on the side your working on so the oil in the sump stays away from the PR tubes, and the oil in the area your working on runs back to the sump.
VW's use the simplest valve cover to install in the world so I'm having a hard time understanding the real dilemma, but I'm guilty of running them on the stand with the valve cover removed to work with the rockers while it's running too.
Good luck, hope this helps.

Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:49 pm

Couple of reasons...

I'm running bolt on cover from revmaster (great btw...debur the sharp edges a little and they are perfectly flat...checked them on our stone at the shop) not difficult, but still don't like doing it.

I'm running a sidewinder with the muffler tucked up near the pass side valves. Not a big deal, but it IS sealed up with silicone nicely right now.

Most importantly...I'm running hydro lifters. I don't think they were setup correctly from the builder and have reached the end of their stroke. I was reading the chevy guys, these are chevy lifters, and they set them when they are running by listening for the tick then going .75 to 1 turn past the no tick point. I wanted to try this way. I guess I'll have to do the ratwell method and set them loose, run for 10 mins, cool to touch, then adjust zero lash +1-2 turns.

Any better ideas?

Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:16 pm

Back in 1993-ish I put together a hydraulic lifter engine with CB slip in lifters. I took an old valve cover and basically cut the top halve of the valve cover off with a die grinder. I left the gasket rail intact and left 2 strips from top to bottom where the bail clipped to keep the cover from collapsing when clipped on. I fired up the engine and most of the splash was contained but I had a lifter shatter after 2 minutes of running, ruining the case.

Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:00 pm

I have An old empi bolt I may chop for this purpose. I'd like to see what it looks like I there when it's running anyway. Regarding exploding...I've been running these almost 3 years now.

Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:00 pm

Sniperx wrote: Couple of reasons...

I'm running bolt on cover from revmaster (great btw...debur the sharp edges a little and they are perfectly flat...checked them on our stone at the shop) not difficult, but still don't like doing it.

I'm running a sidewinder with the muffler tucked up near the pass side valves. Not a big deal, but it IS sealed up with silicone nicely right now.

Most importantly...I'm running hydro lifters. I don't think they were setup correctly from the builder and have reached the end of their stroke. I was reading the chevy guys, these are chevy lifters, and they set them when they are running by listening for the tick then going .75 to 1 turn past the no tick point. I wanted to try this way. I guess I'll have to do the ratwell method and set them loose, run for 10 mins, cool to touch, then adjust zero lash +1-2 turns.

Any better ideas?

This is how it's done;
While the engine is cold, all you need to do is set the cylinder your working on to TDC firing position, then turn the valve adjuster out until you have free lash at the rocker.
Then screw the adjuster back in until you have zero free lash, the best way to tell this is by rotating the push rod with your finger tips, you will feel the push rod firm up slightly as you turn the adjuster in.

Then from this zero lash point just screw the adjuster in 3/4 to 1 full turn and lock the jam nut at that position while keeping the adjuster form moving with a screwdriver. If the lifter is pumped up fully it will open the valve slightly as you screw the adjuster in, don't worry about that it's normal and the lifter will reset as soon as the engine is fired up.
It may stumble for a minute when it first fires, or appear to have low compression while cranking, that's OK, the lifter will reset right away.
Likewise if the lifter is not pumped up fully you may not see the valve open at all and not feel any resistance on the adjusting screw, again that's OK, the lifter will pump up and set when the engines is fired up.
If you have a bleed out lifter that is being stubborn due to trapped air, you may have to run the engine until the oil reaches full temp to purge it.
This takes some time, high idle with the occasional light rev helps move out the air. In some extreme cases a little drive down the street is even needed.
That's it, no more needs to be done.
Hope this get you going, if not post back....

Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:35 pm

I took off my valve cover, put it under the head to catch any drips and lets it idle for about 30seconds to check for noises.... Was fine, dripped a bit but nothing bad.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:17 am

SRP1 wrote: Sniperx wrote: Couple of reasons...

I'm running bolt on cover from revmaster (great btw...debur the sharp edges a little and they are perfectly flat...checked them on our stone at the shop) not difficult, but still don't like doing it.

I'm running a sidewinder with the muffler tucked up near the pass side valves. Not a big deal, but it IS sealed up with silicone nicely right now.

Most importantly...I'm running hydro lifters. I don't think they were setup correctly from the builder and have reached the end of their stroke. I was reading the chevy guys, these are chevy lifters, and they set them when they are running by listening for the tick then going .75 to 1 turn past the no tick point. I wanted to try this way. I guess I'll have to do the ratwell method and set them loose, run for 10 mins, cool to touch, then adjust zero lash +1-2 turns.

Any better ideas?

This is how it's done;
While the engine is cold, all you need to do is set the cylinder your working on to TDC firing position, then turn the valve adjuster out until you have free lash at the rocker.
Then screw the adjuster back in until you have zero free lash, the best way to tell this is by rotating the push rod with your finger tips, you will feel the push rod firm up slightly as you turn the adjuster in.

Then from this zero lash point just screw the adjuster in 3/4 to 1 full turn and lock the jam nut at that position while keeping the adjuster form moving with a screwdriver. If the lifter is pumped up fully it will open the valve slightly as you screw the adjuster in, don't worry about that it's normal and the lifter will reset as soon as the engine is fired up.
It may stumble for a minute when it first fires, or appear to have low compression while cranking, that's OK, the lifter will reset right away.
Likewise if the lifter is not pumped up fully you may not see the valve open at all and not feel any resistance on the adjusting screw, again that's OK, the lifter will pump up and set when the engines is fired up.
If you have a bleed out lifter that is being stubborn due to trapped air, you may have to run the engine until the oil reaches full temp to purge it.
This takes some time, high idle with the occasional light rev helps move out the air. In some extreme cases a little drive down the street is even needed.
That's it, no more needs to be done.
Hope this get you going, if not post back....

This is my first time adjusting these lifters.

The non-pumped lifter is my worry. How can you set zero lash if the lifter is compressing? Does the internal mechanism put up enough fight to bind the pushrod when you rotate it in your finger tips? Obviously you'll find zero lash that way. This is all appreciated.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:01 am

why? 2 clips or 4 nuts or 4 bolts.are you realy that lazy?you cant adjust it while it is running any way, it aint no chevy.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:20 am

mark tucker wrote: why? 2 clips or 4 nuts or 4 bolts.are you realy that lazy?you cant adjust it while it is running any way, it aint no chevy.

Is that REALLY all you got out of my reasons? The covers have to come off to adjust anyway...

These aren't the droids you're looking for.....move along.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:59 pm

But it makes no difference, you can't adjust the valves while it's running anyway, like Mark said.

You can see when you have valve lash, rotate the adjuster in by hand till it touches to zero lash, turn it in another 3/4 to 1 turn in and your done.

No need for the valve cover business, it doesn't accomplish anything.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:15 pm

we used to use cutaway valve covers to adjust the valves on the Corvair, but they used a single rocker nut that pulled the rockers down to adjust lash, just like the old school V8s. Still made a mess. You couldn't set them perfect unless it was running.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:44 pm

Sniperx wrote: SRP1 wrote: Sniperx wrote: Couple of reasons...

I'm running bolt on cover from revmaster (great btw...debur the sharp edges a little and they are perfectly flat...checked them on our stone at the shop) not difficult, but still don't like doing it.

I'm running a sidewinder with the muffler tucked up near the pass side valves. Not a big deal, but it IS sealed up with silicone nicely right now.

Most importantly...I'm running hydro lifters. I don't think they were setup correctly from the builder and have reached the end of their stroke. I was reading the chevy guys, these are chevy lifters, and they set them when they are running by listening for the tick then going .75 to 1 turn past the no tick point. I wanted to try this way. I guess I'll have to do the ratwell method and set them loose, run for 10 mins, cool to touch, then adjust zero lash +1-2 turns.

Any better ideas?

This is how it's done;
While the engine is cold, all you need to do is set the cylinder your working on to TDC firing position, then turn the valve adjuster out until you have free lash at the rocker.
Then screw the adjuster back in until you have zero free lash, the best way to tell this is by rotating the push rod with your finger tips, you will feel the push rod firm up slightly as you turn the adjuster in.

Then from this zero lash point just screw the adjuster in 3/4 to 1 full turn and lock the jam nut at that position while keeping the adjuster form moving with a screwdriver. If the lifter is pumped up fully it will open the valve slightly as you screw the adjuster in, don't worry about that it's normal and the lifter will reset as soon as the engine is fired up.
It may stumble for a minute when it first fires, or appear to have low compression while cranking, that's OK, the lifter will reset right away.
Likewise if the lifter is not pumped up fully you may not see the valve open at all and not feel any resistance on the adjusting screw, again that's OK, the lifter will pump up and set when the engines is fired up.
If you have a bleed out lifter that is being stubborn due to trapped air, you may have to run the engine until the oil reaches full temp to purge it.
This takes some time, high idle with the occasional light rev helps move out the air. In some extreme cases a little drive down the street is even needed.
That's it, no more needs to be done.
Hope this get you going, if not post back....

This is my first time adjusting these lifters.

The non-pumped lifter is my worry. How can you set zero lash if the lifter is compressing? Does the internal mechanism put up enough fight to bind the pushrod when you rotate it in your finger tips? Obviously you'll find zero lash that way. This is all appreciated.

Yes the non pumped up lifter will still give you some resistance, it will be light, but you will be able to feel a slight change in the amount of effort it takes to rotate the push rod. As soon as you feel this slight increase in resistance, that is 0 lash. From that point give 3/4 to 1 turn in and lock the nut.