TheSamba.com :: View topic - First timer with a build that doesnt run yet

Tue May 21, 2013 6:48 pm

Good point on getting the facts. When I bid on this it was said that it did not run and had stopped turning over. The battery was dead so I have never tried turning it over with the Key/ignition system. I have only tried rotating the crank clockwise with a wrench at which point I was only able to tighten the bolt a little. To be exact, the big bolt on the crank, not the gen. I have so far attempted to rock the car while in gear to no avail. At that point I pulled the plugs and added mystery oil to the cylinders. Tomorrow I will say a prayer and try the crank bolt again.

The PO said he paid a local mechanic $3700 to "fix" (I'm guessing rebuild) the motor somewhere in WY. He was supposed to end up with a 1835 bored out to a 1904 and the case is supposed to be stamped with GEX on the pass side case. He drove it for a week and then parked it for a month or two and it never ran again. He went to find the mechanic who he said had skipped town by then and he has no paperwork proving anything. His words were something to the effect of "for all I know he changed the spark plugs"

I won it on eBay and had it shipped to SC where it lives now. I knew it wasn't running at all when purchased so it was no surprise. I figured a rebuild would be needed. The biggest problem is finding out what I'm working with in the first place. Any help with that will be appreciated.

As always, I'm open to suggestions.

Tue May 21, 2013 7:49 pm

Other than physical appearances of outside, the no telling what you are dealing with.... If you can free up motor (rusted rings to cylinder-maybe) then you may be able to get it to start or maybe not.... IF it will start and run fairly clean (no rods knocking or what ever), you might have gotten lucky...

Only real way to diagnose what may be wrong internally is to crack the case and inspect everything....

Dale

Wed May 22, 2013 4:03 am

One of my questions is about cases in general. Is the case for a 1600 the same as an 1835 or even 21**? Just different pistons and jugs? Or are cases different aside from clearenced for larger pistons?

I'm not putting any faith in the motor running at the moment. Breaking loose would be nice though. Like I said, I'm looking forward to tearing into it and then breaking out the measuring sticks.

Wed May 22, 2013 5:21 am

Most 1600 and up cases are essentially the same - just the case gets opened up for the bigger pistons and cylinders.

Gonna sound stupid - but the car IS out of gear when you try to turn the crank bolt, correct?

I think it was mentioned about putting a shot of oil or something in the cylinders and see if it loosens up.

Wed May 22, 2013 7:53 am

andk5591 wrote: Most 1600 and up cases are essentially the same - just the case gets opened up for the bigger pistons and cylinders.

Gonna sound stupid - but the car IS out of gear when you try to turn the crank bolt, correct?

I think it was mentioned about putting a shot of oil or something in the cylinders and see if it loosens up.

I will try after work today to turn the bolt...and veryify it is in neutral LOL
I would like to think I did that but cant swear to it :oops:

Wed May 22, 2013 8:00 am

Just a reminder.... When you try to turn it after letting the Mystery oil work on the cylinders, Make Sure The Plugs Are Out Of The Engine. :lol:

I've got my fingers crossed for ya'!

Wed May 22, 2013 8:27 am

SBD wrote: Just a reminder.... When you try to turn it after letting the Mystery oil work on the cylinders, Make Sure The Plugs Are Out Of The Engine. :lol:

I've got my fingers crossed for ya'!

Thats what I was planning to do, if for nothing else just to make sure it doesnt actually fire up! LOL Plus I wont have to fight compression then either.

As always, I appreciate the support!

Wed May 22, 2013 8:58 am

I have an engine I couldn't get to budge. the engine was not installed. It was given to me by the guy I bought my pan from. Tried all sorts of things to loosen it up and get it to rotate.

so I started to disassemble and after removing the fan shroud it became apparent why it wouldn't rotate: it threw a rod and punched a hole in the top of the case.

So now i have a 1600 DP boat anchor / doorstop.

I hope you have better luck than I.

Rgds

Wed May 22, 2013 9:34 am

jakerot wrote: I have an engine I couldn't get to budge. the engine was not installed. It was given to me by the guy I bought my pan from. Tried all sorts of things to loosen it up and get it to rotate.
so I started to disassemble and after removing the fan shroud it became apparent why it wouldn't rotate: it threw a rod and punched a hole in the top of the case.
So now i have a 1600 DP boat anchor / doorstop.
I hope you have better luck than I.
Rgds

I'm hoping not to have a doorstop/anchor :shock: that would get annoying REAL quick. I can handle a rebuild, but $900 in new cases ontop of everything else is not what I had in mind. If it comes to that I will still do it, just take longer than desired.

Wed May 22, 2013 8:05 pm

SO...no luck yet. I'm prepping to pull it. removed the exhaust, wiring, throttle cable, crappy plastic fuel line and then got puzzled by this...Is that where one of the 4 bolts that holds the motor in place is supposed to go?

Maybe some good news, I never could find anything on the motor that said it was a GEX motor, just a blue sticker that said inspected and tested or something of the sort. PLUS my cases are sequential! So provided they are NOT customized for me (cracked or broken) that may be a good sign.

Anyway, a few more pics...
AS 41 27 VW 211 101 101E

AS 41 (no 27) VW 211 101 102E and there was no nut on the stud sticking out....

One head is cast CL 136 and the other is CL 141. Is that left and right or is something really off here?

I also tightened up the rear driverside hub as it a little loose, the CV drive axle shaft on the wheel side and the transmission side. Every allen bolt was loose. :shock:

I then scaped off a pound of grim from one small side of the transmission. It looked like a lot of leakage and sludge build up. Guess I might end up cracking the tranny as well :roll: unless they just leak alot by nature. Guess it will give me a chance to paint it! :D

Wed May 22, 2013 8:26 pm

yes that is were 1 of the 4 bolts should be ( actually that should be a stud with a nut on it )

AS41 is a great case Dual relief ( hopefully its good )

Heads will go on either side NOT R-L specific

Wed May 22, 2013 8:30 pm

I wouldn't be "cracking" the tranny unless you know what you are doing. Most times these leak at the input shaft seal...a repair that does not require "cracking" anything.

And yes...you are missing a mounting stud there. Either broken or never installed.

Wed May 22, 2013 8:30 pm

Can't answer all of your questions, but yes, there should be a stud with a nut to hold the engine in the first picture.

As far as identifying a GEX engine, I know of at least one that has a GEX sticker on the rear of the top right side of the engine flange where it bolts up to the bellhousing of the transaxle. It would probably be hard to see with the engine installed in your buggy. You would need to either pull the engine or remove the fan shroud to see it. I don't know if they did that with all of their engines or not.

There's usually no difference between left and right side heads. I think the numbers you're seeing are probably just ID numbers of some type from the foundry, and not a big deal. I believe you have to pull the valve covers to see the part #s on the heads. But since it might be from GEX there's no telling what surprises you might find. :shock:

I guess it's now obvious that I type too slowly...... :oops:

Thu May 23, 2013 4:52 am

jspbtown wrote: I wouldn't be "cracking" the tranny unless you know what you are doing. Most times these leak at the input shaft seal...a repair that does not require "cracking" anything.

And yes...you are missing a mounting stud there. Either broken or never installed.

Okay, "Cracking" may not have been the best term and is at the very least premature LOL. I was just amazed at the amount of crap/sludge that was built up on the transmission itself and the entire length of it.

Truth be told I'm almost gitty at doing the motor work, which brings me to another point. Is there any issue with painting the cases/jugs/heads as it pertains to cooling? I know when you polish aluminium it actually lowers heat disapation and never really had to think about paint before. With this being air cooled, does it even matter? Does it matter if I paint the heads and or jugs?

Thu May 23, 2013 6:39 am

I regularly paint my cases. I don't paint the jugs or the heads though.

Not sure about the science of it all but thats just my choice. Others will certainly chime in with more science based comments.

Thu May 23, 2013 8:32 am

Most paints will retain heat in case, only exception is probable black, which is supposed to actually dissipate heat.... NO paint on cylinders or heads unless its a show motor not expected to "run"...

Dale

Thu May 23, 2013 7:21 pm

Good news, the motor is out and appears to be good. The flywheel and big nut on that side is kind of whallered out (technical term LOL)
I need pins and a new bolt. I'm going to grind down the crowns flat so the flywheel sits flush on the crank.

And possibly another drink!

The flywheel was locked on the inside of the tranny

As evident by the shiner bits

Need new flywheel bolts to as these don't match up too well LOL

GOOD NIGHT :twisted:

Fri May 24, 2013 6:34 am

Boy..that has GEX written all over it.

Usually you are in a bad way with those crank pin holes all wallowed (is this the right way?) out, but since the crank has been drilled for 8 pins you might just be able to use the 4 pins that aren't all wallowed out and be OK.

Obviously some new flywheel bolts (right grade and size) are in order as well as a new gland nut.

It also appears that you 6v swingaxle tranny was not clearanced correctly. Do a search and you will find some nice posts on how to do that right.

Does the motor now spin with it out of the tranny?

Oh yeah...replace the flywheel seal while you are at it and make sure you set the endplay correctly when you reinstall the flywheel...I doubt it was set right from GEX.

Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 am

jspbtown wrote: Boy..that has GEX written all over it.

Usually you are in a bad way with those crank pin holes all wallowed (is this the right way?) out, but since the crank has been drilled for 8 pins you might just be able to use the 4 pins that aren't all wallowed out and be OK.

Obviously some new flywheel bolts (right grade and size) are in order as well as a new gland nut.
They were close, they used 8.8 bolts but a mixed sizing...thats great for balancing :evil:

jspbtown wrote: It also appears that you 6v swingaxle tranny was not clearanced correctly. Do a search and you will find some nice posts on how to do that right.
I'm going to look into this now.

jspbtown wrote: Does the motor now spin with it out of the tranny?
Why YES, yes it does :D It even has some compression.

jspbtown wrote: Oh yeah...replace the flywheel seal while you are at it and make sure you set the endplay correctly when you reinstall the flywheel...I doubt it was set right from GEX.
Thats the orange seal? I will have to search on the endplay part as I am not familure with that. I also need another engine mount bolt, the lower passenger side was gone.
Any ideas on where to order that from?

Fri May 24, 2013 10:36 am

Quote: They were close, they used 8.8 bolts but a mixed sizing...thats great for balancing
So the bolt holes in the flywheel are different sizes?

Yes..thats the orange seal.

Yes..do read up on endplay., It is very very critical that it is set right. Don't do it right and you will toast your engine in short order.

I think the lower bolt is actually a stud. I don't know the thread pitch or length but it should be the same as the other one. Here they are at cip1:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VHD%2DN14%2D4114%2D2