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Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:13 pm

I'm in the process of installing a set of Kadrons on a type 4 motor in a bus. Has anyone experienced issues with these manifolds? The left side went on but was a bit tough to get to the nuts at the base. The right side has been taken off 3 times now (going on 4th) to take meat off the curves to get a 1/4 socket wrench in. I am getting leery of taking more off the manifold and opted to even grind the socket down each time. I'm using the correct nuts in the packaging. Small bronze colored ones. Give up and send em back or just be careful and grind away?

Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:36 pm

The recent type 4 manifolds have some serious casting issues. Look inside and you will know if its a winner or not.

Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:54 pm

Actually the first thing I noticed was a lot of slurry or whatever in the throat openings. I gotta say I'm a little disappointed about this, This is the first time I've used or set up Kadrons. The carbs look great but this EMPI crap makes me a bit concerned as to what the linkage (EMPI) is gonna turn out like. I mailed Jeff at Kaddieshack about this issue and gonna send him pics in the morning. I figured someone here had to have run up on this situation before.

Thanks

Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:09 pm

These may help

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/ACN-Flanged-Racing-Intake-and-Exhaust-Nut-8-x-10mm-p/acn-nuts.htm

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:09 pm

I knew john had those and more than once been tempted to buy those pricey little buggers. I was surprised that EMPI actually supplied a 11mm version without the flange. Still didn't solve the problem though. I'm not gonna go trashing Jeff but he denies any sort of problem with these outside of having to file them down. Filing is one thing, Taking a grinder to them and chewing a gouge out is another. "We sell 100's of these never a problem". Seems like I've been told that recently by a few sellers.

Solution: Grind them till it works. Still not enough? Keep grinding your socket diameter and modify your tools. Guess he was right :roll:. You can just about see through the socket it's so thin but by god it's on there. Jeezus hope this isn't a sign of things to come for VW enthusiast. I'm no stranger to massaging parts but this is more like having sex with a masochist.

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:13 pm

I use the "Jet Nuts" on my intake and exhaust studs. They're 3/8" and I use a swivel socket to get them on and off.

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:16 pm

That's pretty slick Glenn. I was using a 1/4 drive with a socket like that. Where you get those?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:21 pm

It's all S/K, 1/4" drive ratchet with a 6" extension with a locking tip and a 3/8" 1/4 drive socket with integral swivel.

The locking tip means you never pull the extension off the socket.

Another trick is put a paper towel across the socket and then put the nut on. Remove the excess paper towel and the nut will not fall off. This makes it real easy to get the manifolds on.

Also I cut 1.5" holes in the fender wells so I can have access to the front studs and the #1 and #3 spark plugs.

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:22 pm

They are cheaper in bulk.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=ACN-nut

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:42 pm

Glenn that's a great set up. I'm actually working on a friends bus he pulled the injection off of. I know before anyone gets started and it wasn't my idea, However if you want to take shots at me about suggesting he go with the kads I probably deserve it. I cut window ports on my bug for tuning and fabbed up some covers for them.

That paper towel thing is a new one on me, Bet I'll use that one. I looked real quick about those nuts and found this https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=MJET

John, It's been at least twice now I've fought with these frickin manifold bolts and swore I'd get a set the next time I placed a order from you. Looks like that day is coming sooner than I thought.

Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:39 pm

Hmm, John's are 80c each and the Jet nuts are about $2.00. I don't think either is expensive for anyone who's fitted dual carb or large bore extractors...

Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:19 am

Some us prefer to have bloody knuckles and yelling obscenties at inadament objects over paying a few pennies for a proper nut. Just takes all the fun out of it you know. If I bump into you while shopping at AC net I'll be the guy with bandaids on his knuckles mumbling about my empty wallet.

Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:45 am

Some local hardware stores might have these.

All are M8x1.25

11mm - 12mm - 13mm

Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:30 am

CB has them too.

http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=3334

http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=3335

They are actually for exhaust but I use them on the intake with a good washer.
The 3334 looks to be what you could use since it takes a 10 mm socket and would be no wider than the nut itself.

Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:42 am

i recently installed some EMPI manifolds on my type 4 engine in a bus. had the same problem with the inner fasteners.

solution was to remove the inner studs from the head and replace them with a 8mm socket head bolt. this allowed me to use a long 6mm allen with a ball head to install and tighten them.

Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:47 am

obieoberstar wrote: remove the inner studs from the head and replace them with a 8mm socket head bolt.
The reason for studs it to not damage the softer aluminum heads by removing and installing bolts over and over again.

Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:03 pm

I have the same set up on my 72 bus. I had to grind an 11mm 3/8 drive deep well socket down reeeally thin to get it to work then I used grey silicone to to hold the nuts in the end of the socket. I used 8mmx1.25x11mm brass nuts from my FLAPS. They don't have any shoulder or flanges and are about twice as long as regular nuts and are used for exhaust flanges(I just looked on-line at Fastenals web-site and found some 8mmx1.25x10mm stainless nuts with a flange pn11508501 that I may use next time). I had to grind a wavy lock washer flat on one edge to use on the two outer studs (four washers total).I have even thought about cutting out the casting/webbing between the runners to give better access to the two inner nuts but it's really not to bad if you take your time. Hope this helps,John

Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:38 pm

John, I actually considered doing this also "cutting the web" I just didn't want to do it and then something go wrong and the vendor give me gruff if I returned them. Not like a gouge the size of the grand canyon wouldn't be sufficient grounds to null chances of a return. Returning was never gonna be a option from the moment they left the vendors shop. We have a Fastenal down the road from the house so that may be a option also. The nuts you described sound identical to the ones EMPI supplied with the manifold kit. The manifolds are on now. I think I'll loose my mind if I crank this up and it starts a vaccum leak.

Not wanting to burn bridges here but bet I wont do this again without looking deeper into more options. Lesson well learned you might say. Still gotta put the carbs on and linkage before I fire it up. Would have done it today but the thrill has gone.

Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:33 pm

I bet the HPMX kit is looking pretty good now for $550

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1445437

Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:26 am

Rub it in AlteWagen. I came very close to buying the 44's at that exact price. Until I got wrangled into these.