TheSamba.com :: View topic - Bought 85 Joker Jubilee to drive home from Chile, now dead.

Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 pm

I quickly checked Brazil, Argentina Craigs list etc. There must be other online or publication resources; I was surprised to see so few VW auto parts listings. I imagine you've searched but would still suggest finding a set of case halves.

@ all. Would having a seller remove the case head studs prior to shipping be a bad idea? It would obviously reduce shipping container size but then how many sellers would risk snapping studs?

Just a few thoughts.

Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:46 pm

Great thoughts.
There is an engine for sale here in Chile but it is a different model.
We have the 'DG' engine.
Thanks again!

Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:18 pm

ben_in_bus wrote: Over the last month, we have done the following...
-removed the engine, shipped to Santiago to WB expert.
-engine disassembled, blocks sent to expert to remove head studs.
-expert machinists, one after another, have attempted and given up on extraction. we are now preparing to work with a 5th machinist

Contact someone like Chris at Vanistan, or the folks at Suburban Engines and see how they remove the studs. They do it all the time so depending how mess up yours are after many attempts it may not be that hard to remove them. I would think that an induction heater might be the ticket. Don't know if anyone in Chile has ever seen or heard of one though.

Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:51 pm

Find another 1.9 case in good condition. You've been given this link before http://www.westfaliat3.info/html/westfalia_t3_jubilee_edition_j.html and according to the info the Jubilee came carbureted or injected so your engine isn't so unique.
I've found this:

pianobrooks wrote: I am new to the vanagons, having just bought an '84 westy with 95k original miles on the 1.9 engine. The engine had a slight head gasket leak when I bought it, so I took it in to the well-reputed Wolfsburg Motorwerks here in Seattle to take apart the engine and see what story lay inside. I was hoping to get away with just replacing the head gaskets but knew the situation could be much worse.

And here's the story: the heads are in great shape, and there is no corrosion at the jacket surface where the head gasket mounts. And the rods are in "surprisingly" good shape. So you might think I got off easy. . . but there is a catch.

At some point in the engine's life, it seems the engine was run with just plain water (or very very dilute coolant). Hence there is a lot of corrosion in the water jacket, and the critical component is those head studs - they are badly corroded. So much so that the worst of them are visibly smaller in diameter than they were when new. The mechanic is very concerned about this.

He has put it to me like this: if you reassemble it as is, there is a risk that the bolt(s) will snap when you torque on the head. You could aim for a lower torque, but that's risky as many of you know. Another option is to replace the studs. However he knows from experience that they will be near impossible to get out, because they will be so corroded in there at the base that they will snap when they try to extract them. So his only solution there is to tear it apart, send it to the machine shop, and have them cut off the studs and thread new holes for new studs. And this puts the total cost in the price range of a complete rebuild - $5k installed.

He said they could spend a bunch of time trying to gingerly extract the studs, but the shop time would add up to make it cost-prohibitive. So he favors a $5k (installed) completely rebuilt engine (which would turn it into a 2.2 I think - an improvement worth noting).

Guess what - we don't have the $5k! Any advice/suggestions? Should I try to extract the studs myself, or is that crazy? Should I take the risk of putting it back together as is? Is there any other solution?

Thanks for your ideas.

Important response:

tencentlife wrote: The studs come out of 2.1 cases with difficulty, but it's near impossible to extract them from a 1.9 case. Scrap that one. Far far cheaper to get another 1.9 crankcase or core engine.

I have a few decent 1.9 cases, but shipping ups the cost, so see if you can locate a good case up there in the Vanagon-infested NW.

You might want to read this as well:

Quote: Re: T25 1.9 Watercooled engine

Postby Mocki » 22 Mar 2011, 21:08

kevtherev wrote:

kevtherev wrote:Well if it is a DG engine it has DF inletting,

Bingo... Do I get the prize?

nope..... the heads are the difference,, and therefore the inlet manifold, and to-wit carb.

cant fit a df inlet manifold ( and therefore carb) onto a dg head.
so i suggest what we have there is a rebuild...... original dg casing, with df heads, carb and manifold.

anyhow, the df is ok, less numbers, but just as much go in the real world, and df's tend to live longer, cos less thrashing, as they dont peak rev so high with the smaller inlets.....

sorry!
Steve

From here:

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&...45[/quote]

Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:24 pm

Just to put closure on this thread...
The rebuild was successful and is detailed in a long-format post:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=587363
Enjoy the ride.

Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:45 pm

Thanks for the update! Glad to hear that it worked out okay. Super-sweet calculator watch!

Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:44 pm

ben_in_bus wrote: Just to put closure on this thread...
The rebuild was successful and is detailed in a long-format post:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=587363
Enjoy the ride.

I enjoyed the ride!
I'm curious what you did about the brinnelled 5th gear.
(axial depressions from the needle bearing on the gear and the shaft).
Did you replace the shaft and the gear?

This is caused by several things, which we're trying to learn about.
Some of the contributors are (in no particular order).

1) improper gear oil (too thin)
2) lubricant contaminated by water.
3) lubricant particle contamination (very small particles)
4) big engine
5) lugging the engine in 5th gear
6) worn parts, too much slop

and driver-style:

7) long-distance driving with steady perma-throttle with no "decel".
Cruise control can do this too. The idler gear needle bearing throws all the oil out and the gear never lifts off the face of the mainshaft bearing thus no new oil is allowed in.

So, do you see any contributors in the above list?

Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:21 am

Great questions and ideas.

I have the 5 speed gearbox in my garage, intact and non-functional.
It would be fun to diagnose with an expert what went wrong after the jungle rebuild...and even restore so I could get the 5 speed back in the van. Do you do this work? If not, do you recommend someone who does?

For additional closure:

The details of that adventure are chronicled here: http://jokersinjubilee.blogspot.com/

and mapped here: http://jokersinjubilee.blogspot.com/p/our-map.html

Take care,
Ben

Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:28 am

ben_in_bus wrote: Great questions and ideas.

I have the 5 speed gearbox in my garage, intact and non-functional.
It would be fun to diagnose with an expert what went wrong after the jungle rebuild...and even restore so I could get the 5 speed back in the van. Do you do this work? If not, do you recommend someone who does?

For additional closure:

The details of that adventure are chronicled here: http://jokersinjubilee.blogspot.com/

and mapped here: http://jokersinjubilee.blogspot.com/p/our-map.html

Take care,
Ben

MR GAS Transmissions in (aka Greg Sayers) in Colorado Springs does 5-speed rebuilds, he might be able to help out.