TheSamba.com :: View topic - how do people feel about the flying swastika

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:43 pm

Helfen,

That's interesting. I am surprised you didn't mention the stamp books Germans had for VW which were never fulfilled.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm

That looks like the stamp book. You fill this up with stamps to own a VW. Many people bought these stamps and they never received their car.

raygreenwood wrote:

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:10 pm

I wish someone would highlight the swastika in the symbol. For the life of me, I don't see it.

(Then when you do.... :oops: )

Thanks.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:10 pm

I'm describing how I see it, not what it was intended to be. As I said, it will be a swastika to whoever wants it to be, whether it actually is or not. Gets conversation going, eh?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm

bigdog1962 wrote: I wish someone would highlight the swastika in the symbol. For the life of me, I don't see it.

(Then when you do.... :oops: )

Thanks.

It's difficult to see. Assume there is a swastika symbol that is turning. The turning will leave lines behind it. Just look for the four different sets of lines. It's hard to see but it is there. Those dirty bastards put that dam thing in everything it appears.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:18 pm

I'm still taking high school history classes, and we haven't gotten to WW2 yet, but when I see that logo, I think of EARLY VW and the companies origins. Most of the people know about VW's origins at my school because I talk about VW's all the time :lol: . My history book report is actually the history of VW and their relation to WW2 and Hitler. The logo doesn't offend me at all. The Swastika was not a symbol of hate until Hitler took it and it shouldn't be swept under the rug because it has to do with something awful. It is history, and people need to be educated about it. My history teacher and I feel the same way about things like this, he doesn't like how people are taking down statues of Confederate heroes, but that's for another topic that will most likely get locked because of political comments :lol: . If you have a VW of that vintage or are a collector of VW pieces it seems natural to have them on your car or have one in your collection. You shouldn't have to change your car because someone might get offended by a curved swastika/fan-blade. That's just my opinion though.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:53 pm

Dan Hiebert wrote: I'm describing how I see it, not what it was intended to be. As I said, it will be a swastika to whoever wants it to be, whether it actually is or not. Gets conversation going, eh?

Well put.

It was definatley meant to be a swastika.....but it is rather subtle in some respects....especially if you are not especially good with pattern recognition.

To the other poster who still cannot see the swastika....try this

The main VW/swastika logo on the left....the cleaned up one on the right. Yes its still stylised.....but its a Swastika. Ray

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:04 pm

Whts interesting is in the one article linked, it describes a similar logo as the sunwheel logo which is what I see when I look at it.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:42 pm

Never linked the two together at all, and I am of German ancestry, love history, and VW's.
We all know the historical linkage between Nazi fascist Germany and Volkswagen. I would like to believe we as a populous are intelligent enough to allow history to be that, history, and to learn from the lack of compassion and understanding. Long live the dub. Not the nonsense. It's a logo to me.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:12 pm

SamboSamba22 wrote: Long live the dub. Not the nonsense. It's a logo to me. Exactly how I feel.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:05 pm

As long as Louis C.K. doesn't spank someone with that- I'm okay with it.

Just talking about it means someone, somewhere at a Whole Foods with a Forester and a stack of New Age CDs is going to be offended on behalf of a family member they never knew from 3 generations ago. This hell-bent person will sip their chamomile tomorrow and with Crocks crossed in the hemp hammock rattle off a 3 page diatribe to TheView's Facebook page- #graveinjustice!!!

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:10 pm

SamboSamba22 wrote: Never linked the two together at all, and I am of German ancestry, love history, and VW's.
We all know the historical linkage between Nazi fascist Germany and Volkswagen. I would like to believe we as a populous are intelligent enough to allow history to be that, history, and to learn from the lack of compassion and understanding. Long live the dub. Not the nonsense. It's a logo to me.

Apparently many people don't realize the historical facts of the National socialist so I will insert this again.

" In 1939, the National Socialist German Workers' Party joined with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as allies to invade Poland in a pact of military socialism to divide up Europe. The Second World War ended passenger-car production plans, and the Stuttgart factory was converted to military use."

I still don't get and no one has a answer as to why G/B and France who had a pact with Poland to declare war on anyone invading Poland did nothing to the Soviet Union when Germany and the Soviets both invaded Poland at the same time and through the Soviet/German non aggression pact had already divided Poland up before their invasion.

As I say again understand this and keep in mind Germany was no more a Fascist than the Soviet Union was;

Those clichés led to the socialist Wholecaust (of which the Holocaust was a part): ~60 million slaughtered under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; ~50 million under the Peoples' Republic of China; ~20 million under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. It was the worst slaughter in human history.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:50 pm

FYI, I don't think you would be able to sell those repo. hub caps in Germany today. I think it's also unlawful to fly even the old WW1 battle flag which is very similar to the WW2 battle flag. see below;

WW1 battle flag;
http://www.loeser.us/flags/images/nadap/german_note/warflag4.jpg

WW2 Battle flag that Hitler personally re-designed;
https://militaria-net.co.uk/images/battle-flag.jpg

The last time I was in Germany I bought the WW1 flag, however since then;
Outside of educational, artistic or scientific contexts, selling and showing symbols of Nazi Germany, including the Reichskriegsflagge, is illegal in Germany according to Strafgesetzbuch section 86a. This covers the version used after 1935 with the swastika. However, the original black-white-red tricolour flag used between 1871 and 1919 can be shown depending on circumstances in different states of Germany. Because members of the far right have used the imperial war flag as a symbol, its use is considered to be a "breach of the public order" in seven states, and flags could be confiscated. In the other nine states, any provocative misuse of the flag can be prosecuted as an Ordnungswidrigkeit

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:55 pm

Helfen, could the hub caps be an "artistic" design on the vehicle? I'm sure the VW museum says they are "educational".

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:01 pm

The German Strafgesetzbuch (Criminal Code) in § 86a outlaws "use of symbols of unconstitutional organizations" outside the contexts of "art or science, research or teaching". This concerns Nazi symbolism in particular and is part of the denazification efforts following the fall of the Third Reich.

So....If the VW museum uses those hub caps or the dash on the 1938 VW they have in there I would presume by definition of the criminal code that it's OK. Driving around Germany in a restored Beetle with the hooked cross hub caps might be another story.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:12 pm

Thanks Ray.

To me, that's a HUGE stretch to get a swastika out of that design.

I'm in the crowd of it just being a logo.

I don't believe in subliminal messages....or ghosts, for that matter.

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:29 pm

bigdog1962 wrote: Thanks Ray.

To me, that's a HUGE stretch to get a swastika out of that design.

I'm in the crowd of it just being a logo.

I don't believe in subliminal messages....or ghosts, for that matter.

In the original KDF logo.
The flag for Units of the German Labor Front had as the center field the symbol of the Deutschen Arbeitsfront (DAF, German Labor Front): a black cog wheel containing a black swastika. The finial took the form of the DAF emblem, a voided white cogwheel containing a swastika, all in polished white metal (from the Osprey Men-At-Arms Series, #278 "Flags of the Third Reich 3: Party & Police Units", p. 37).
Another version of the bent swastika from the 5th SS Panzer division.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thu...ka.svg.png

An early design for the car featured the letter V above a W and surrounded by a cog. After the war, Britain had the cog changed to a circle and that design was filed for copyright in 1948. The Volkswagen or "people's car" project was part of the Nazi Kraft durch Freude propaganda scheme run by the Deutsche Arbeitsfront (DAF). The logo of the DAF was a swastika surrounded by a cog – from which the VW logo was derived

Another Term;
The initial logo comprised of the ‘Nazi’ flag designed in the shape of a swastika symbol. Furthermore this symbol also signified an ancient Nordic symbol called ‘Ginfaxi’ a binding in ancient rune that supposedly granted victory in any battles fought.
https://www.spreadshirt.de/image-server/v1/mp/designs/16205368,width=178,height=178/ginfaxi-rune.png
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*0OOiykpyN-3VkpzrN1TzdA.jpeg

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:01 pm

hitest wrote: Just talking about it means someone, somewhere at a Whole Foods with a Forester and a stack of New Age CDs is going to be offended on behalf of a family member they never knew from 3 generations ago. This hell-bent person will sip their chamomile tomorrow and with Crocks crossed in the hemp hammock rattle off a 3 page diatribe to TheView's Facebook page- #graveinjustice!!!

=D>

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:08 am

Here is another flying swastika. The swastika also has current and legitimate uses today as in the Finnish Air Force flag. The swastika is an ancient symbol used in many places of the world including native Americans. Therefore the symbol as such cannot be banned or condemned as has been concluded by the United Nations. The swastika was adopted by the Finnish Air Force as their symbol in 1918, a decade before Hitler, and remains to this day. The swastika is also a common ancient symbol used in Finnish mythology and art and even appears in the official flag of the president of Finland and in the decorations of many Finnish orders. Here is the current Finnish Air Force academy standard with not only one large but also two small swastikas:

As the Finnish swastika has nothing to do with the Nazi swastika and is not presented in a 45 degree angle like the Geman counterpart, it did come handy in identifying cobelligrents on the Finnish Eastern Front when defending the freedom of Finland against the Soviet aggression along side with the German Wehrmacht.

Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:00 am

Before WWll, a majority of the barns in the US had a stylized swastika on it.