TheSamba.com :: View topic - how do people feel about the flying swastika

Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:56 pm

mikeandkirsti wrote: The spinning swastika logo is on numerous early parts which are plentiful in early Kübelwagens.
Kubels never had a swastika logo on any parts. The logo you are talking about isn't a swastika.

Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:58 pm

Oh, jeez, I thought we had settled this...
:roll:

Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:40 pm

I don't think it's any more fair to judge Dr. Porsche and his VW for using Nazi logotypes than it is to judge Michael Jordan for wearing Nike tennis shoes, or Lewis Hamilton for driving a Mercedes. As far as the car itself is concerned, Hitler and the DAF were nothing more than sponsors with deep pockets (and hidden agendas), and I imagine Dr. Porsche saw them as nothing more than an essential, albeit highly annoying, means to an end. I imagine Jordan and Lewis think of their sponsors in the exact same way. And I'd be willing to bet that if NSU had been able to offer Porsche the money he needed to get his "Everyman's Car" project off the ground back in '32, but told him he'd have to wear a purple felt hat with a peacock feather in it and use a pink leprechaun riding a flying pig as his logotype, he would have said, "Ja, das ist gut!"

In this case, I say hate the game, not the player.

Here's something I came across a while ago that I thought was interesting: While the Beetle was still in its research and development phase, even before it was known as the KdF-wagen, it was, indeed, referred to by Dr. Porsche and his team as the "VW". However, they didn't mean "Volkswagen", as this was still a general term for any type of vehicle that could be afforded by the common man. Porsche's use of the term "VW" meant "Versuchwagen", or "Test Car". So, VW 801 was "Test Car no. 801" (VW 801 was actually destroyed during testing, along with its brothers VW 802 and VW 803, but all three were present at the famous cornerstone laying ceremony where Hitler gave his speech).

Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:16 pm

Wonder what the odds had those three test VW's not been destroyed in testing of surviving WW2 intact.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:37 pm

[quote="Floating VW"]I don't think it's any more fair to judge Dr. Porsche and his VW for using Nazi logotypes than it is to judge Michael Jordan for wearing Nike tennis shoes, or Lewis Hamilton for driving a Mercedes. As far as the car itself is concerned, Hitler and the DAF were nothing more than sponsors with deep pockets (and hidden agendas), and I imagine Dr. Porsche saw them as nothing more than an essential, albeit highly annoying, means to an end. I imagine Jordan and Lewis think of their sponsors in the exact same way. And I'd be willing to bet that if NSU had been able to offer Porsche the money he needed to get his "Everyman's Car" project off the ground back in '32, but told him he'd have to wear a purple felt hat with a peacock feather in it and use a pink leprechaun riding a flying pig as his logotype, he would have said, "Ja, das ist gut!"

In this case, I say hate the game, not the player.

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Although Porsche had wanted to build his own Volks Auto you must remember it was Hitler who came to Porsche to have Hitler's Volks Auto designed and a factory designed and built. You are right in that the term Volkswagen was a generic German term many German auto companies used describing their own version of a people's car. If NSU for example offered to Porsche a place to build a car Hitler most likely wouldn't let them do it, besides Porsche had already done the VW project car for Zundapp / NSU called the type 32. Because of money issues NSU lost interest.
Porsche then got a assignment from the German government to design the VW Beetle. The beetles fathers are Hitler and the German government and Porsche. The beetle as we know it could not exist without either party being absent. As far as the name goes, it was Porsche who was shocked to learn the name of the car was to be called KDF Wagen, produced at KDF Stadt.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:36 pm

Helfen wrote: If NSU for example offered to Porsche a place to build a car Hitler most likely wouldn't let them do it . . .
That's a good point. Several automobile manufacturers all over Europe were looking into making their own version of the "People's Car", and Hitler was absolutely paranoid that his ideas would be stolen and copied somewhere else. He even ordered all of the surviving VW30 series prototypes to be destroyed after that phase of the testing was complete, just to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands. It's such a damn shame that the workers didn't take one or two of them out on a "final test drive" before destruction and just not bring them back to the shop. Then again, I don't think I would have been brave enough to do it, not in 1930's Germany.

Helfen wrote: Porsche had already done the VW project car for Zundapp / NSU called the type 32. Because of money issues NSU lost interest.
Yeah, the Type 32 was what I was referring to when I mentioned NSU not being able to properly fund the project in 1932. The Type 32 is also why I believe the Beetle was already in Porsche's head long before Hitler came into the picture. I believe that Hitler saw it and liked it, and that is why he approached Dr. Porsche to design the German People's Car.

To say that the fathers of the Beetle were Hitler, the German government, and Dr. Porsche isn't necessarily wrong, but I think it's more accurate to say that the government was the sperm donor, Hitler was the test tube, and Dr. Porsche was the mother that gave birth to it all.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Floating VW wrote: Helfen wrote: If NSU for example offered to Porsche a place to build a car Hitler most likely wouldn't let them do it . . .
That's a good point. Several automobile manufacturers all over Europe were looking into making their own version of the "People's Car", and Hitler was absolutely paranoid that his ideas would be stolen and copied somewhere else. He even ordered all of the surviving VW30 series prototypes to be destroyed after that phase of the testing was complete, just to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands. It's such a damn shame that the workers didn't take one or two of them out on a "final test drive" before destruction and just not bring them back to the shop. Then again, I don't think I would have been brave enough to do it, not in 1930's Germany.

Helfen wrote: Porsche had already done the VW project car for Zundapp / NSU called the type 32. Because of money issues NSU lost interest.
Yeah, the Type 32 was what I was referring to when I mentioned NSU not being able to properly fund the project in 1932. The Type 32 is also why I believe the Beetle was already in Porsche's head long before Hitler came into the picture. I believe that Hitler saw it and liked it, and that is why he approached Dr. Porsche to design the German People's Car.

To say that the fathers of the Beetle were Hitler, the German government, and Dr. Porsche isn't necessarily wrong, but I think it's more accurate to say that the government was the sperm donor, Hitler was the test tube, and Dr. Porsche was the mother that gave birth to it all.

The government= Hitler was also the womb or factory

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:57 pm

busman78 wrote: Wonder what the odds had those three test VW's not been destroyed in testing of surviving WW2 intact.

A couple Porsche Berlin-Rome cars and the Mercedes land speed record car (albeit sans engine) survived. So who knows?

Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:11 pm

jwp67 wrote: hazetguy wrote: i see one in this logo......

That was their intention. :lol:

Not at all funny.
Gert Boyle and her family fled Nazi Germany. Columbia Sportswear was founded by her Father and is currently run by herself and her Son.

And while we are one the subject of VW and Porsche's actions during the war, keep in mind that they (including Bosch) had slaves working in their factories. See the link below.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a13tam6tumcj0az/-Surviving_in_fear.pdf?dl=0

Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:18 pm

They all used forced labor. All the men were off at war. Towards the end of the war teenage boys were forced to fight. They had no one left to work except the forced laborers. There are many companies who were made wealthy off of the people in concentration camps. At least VW paid and created a museum so that we will never forget.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:37 am

static wrote: jwp67 wrote: hazetguy wrote: i see one in this logo......

That was their intention. :lol:

Not at all funny.
Gert Boyle and her family fled Nazi Germany. Columbia Sportswear was founded by her Father and is currently run by herself and her Son.

And while we are one the subject of VW and Porsche's actions during the war, keep in mind that they (including Bosch) had slaves working in their factories. See the link below.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a13tam6tumcj0az/-Surviving_in_fear.pdf?dl=0

Just remember that the KDF car and the KDF factory (KDF Stadt) were a arm of the government and VW as we know it today would have two owners after the National SOCIALIST government before where they are today. As for Porsche, Robert Bosch, Krupp etc. It's do what we ask or you'll end up in forced labor or shot, and your company will be state owned and run.

Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:47 am

Kraft durch Freude spinning swastika that inspired the KdF-VW logo