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Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:10 pm

khughes wrote: "Cant wait for that Suby conversion! :D"

Based on my, admittedly uncalibrated, butt-dyno, I think a 2.2L would leave you unimpressed, while a 2.5L would be significantly more peppy than your Jetta engine.

Of course you could ditch the carb and install a Mega-squirt and a turbo and zoom, zoom, zoom :lol:

The 2.5 becomes more lively starting around 4500 or 4700 rpm, as I recall.

The 2.5 builds power in the upper RPM range.

I wind my 2.2 up to around 5000 rpm so when I shift I am no lower than 3000 rpm.

My configuration prefers to run at 3000 and above.

At around 3000 rpm I am about 60 mph in 4th.

So it is all bliss above that as I top out around 90 mph at a little over 4500 rpm.

In other words I typically never need the extra go the 2.5 offers.

This translates to 21 - 24 mpg depending on how I drive and how loaded we are.

Mind you I adore the ABA but choose the Subaru.

Don't mess with stuff that works!

My van was in death throws when I bought it so it needed the surgery.

Nothing wrong with an I4 really.

I can not say which is better or worse or getting parts either.

Stay with what you have. It is fine. No need to go all crazy and make big changes.

Have fun!

Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:28 pm

rogertj wrote: Vanagon Nut wrote:

I don't know which "back water plastic fitting" part you refer to earlier but if you're replacing the black plastic manifold (outlet) at forward end of head, try to find an actual VW part if possible. Some people have had trouble with that part warping. ....

Is the head gasket the correct thickness?

Hey Vanagon nut! Yes as a matter of fact it did came with the same screw bad, and in the valve cover screws one screw "fd" up, I need to change them before installing it.

About my water outlet is the flange one that I was refering to : heres the photo:

Ok thanks for the photos.

That is different than the ABA type but I think we're talking about the same type of part.

It's obviously a personal choice, VW vs Subaru, but I know from experience that being able to get a given engine conversion serviced can be a challenge. I'm not saying a VW conversion is better in that regard but if the area you live in has better support for VW's, that may be a better choice unless you plan to do 100% of the work yourself.

In terms of power, I find the power of my stock fuel injected ABA to be acceptable even for on ramp merges though it depends on the on ramp. I don't know if a carb engine of same displacement would make better power.

Depending on what engine mounts are used (hydraulic vs rubber and size, design etc.), I'd guess that an inline engine conversion could be set up to be not too "buzzy" under load at around 3500 RPM. i.e. I regret not taking time to install the Audi mounts that most people use; they are larger than what I installed and would likely do a better job of isolating engine noise.

Neil.

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:46 am

Vanagon Nut wrote: rogertj wrote: Vanagon Nut wrote:

I don't know which "back water plastic fitting" part you refer to earlier but if you're replacing the black plastic manifold (outlet) at forward end of head, try to find an actual VW part if possible. Some people have had trouble with that part warping. ....

Is the head gasket the correct thickness?

Hey Vanagon nut! Yes as a matter of fact it did came with the same screw bad, and in the valve cover screws one screw "fd" up, I need to change them before installing it.

About my water outlet is the flange one that I was refering to : heres the photo:

Ok thanks for the photos.

That is different than the ABA type but I think we're talking about the same type of part.

It's obviously a personal choice, VW vs Subaru, but I know from experience that being able to get a given engine conversion serviced can be a challenge. I'm not saying a VW conversion is better in that regard but if the area you live in has better support for VW's, that may be a better choice unless you plan to do 100% of the work yourself.

In terms of power, I find the power of my stock fuel injected ABA to be acceptable even for on ramp merges though it depends on the on ramp. I don't know if a carb engine of same displacement would make better power.

Depending on what engine mounts are used (hydraulic vs rubber and size, design etc.), I'd guess that an inline engine conversion could be set up to be not too "buzzy" under load at around 3500 RPM. i.e. I regret not taking time to install the Audi mounts that most people use; they are larger than what I installed and would likely do a better job of isolating engine noise.

Neil.

Thanks guys.

Well as a matter of fact I was planning the conversion 5 years ago but I went broke when one of my Uber drivers got smashed when he got to sleep driving ( that was not a good combination ) with a drunken driver thank God that no one got hurt.

So the Suby was only used for long trips in Baja to the Sierra's here in Baja but then after we went broke because of that little incident of 9,000 dlls we started using the subie as a daily driver but it was intended for the conversion from the beginning.

However it's definitely cheaper for the ABA to put more work on it.

The Suby haven't investigated about details but will get there.

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:29 pm

So I just edited the thread to "Rebuild a 2.0 ABA Block" from "what type of TIICO engine is this" because definitely the cheaper desition to make by far.

Long story short my engine overheated because some rubber I did not pay attention to... some hoses that I did not change or maybe they got damaged in that timeline, yeah I know it was horrible... but this was a hard lesson for me. Who knows maybe it was the heads because they had more than 30 years old and God knows how many machining procedures. (jetta 1.8 heads)

So here are the photos of the disassembly and I think I have a video. Results of the overheating= melted engine head plastic oil thing that I'm forgetting the name for it.

Im also in the vwvortex forums searching for answers ZERO was very helpfull showing me some images of the measurements for the block

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9377979...t114082733

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:41 pm

Heres the Video

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:54 pm

Thinking to put a turbo after I save some money and change the heads to an original 2.0 engine heads. Please throw some heavy lip on me! Wish that the turbocharger was still on sale like Vanagonnut (JoeTiger) had on his Vanagon only eBay & amazon ones are available please let me know if there are other suppliers out there I'm thinking in squeezing the last dollar in savings in this conversion as putting more horsepower on it, but the real question would be how many horsepowers can I add with this set up? Thanks in advance!

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:09 pm

rogertj wrote: ....Wish that the turbocharger was still on sale like Vanagonnut (JoeTiger) had on his Vanagon

I don't have a turbo on my 2.0 :)

Joetiger might have an ABA with turbo?

Using feeler gauges with a good quality carpenters straight edge can help determine if the head is warped out of specification. But, I would get that confirmed by a machine shop.

Best of luck,

Neil.

Veritas straight edge I used

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:23 pm

Vanagon Nut wrote: rogertj wrote: ....Wish that the turbocharger was still on sale like Vanagonnut (JoeTiger) had on his Vanagon

I don't have a turbo on my 2.0 :)

Joetiger might have an ABA with turbo?

Using feeler gauges with a good quality carpenters straight edge can help determine if the head is warped out of specification. But, I would get that confirmed by a machine shop.

Best of luck,

Neil.

Veritas straight edge I used

Sorry for my confusion Vanagon Nut! You have contributed so much on your builds that I thought for a second that it was you hahahaha Ill look for that straight edge

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:17 pm

I have a 2.0 turbo, total Frankenstein now, I'm happy to walk you through. JoeTiger has a supercharged version!

Simply, the budget friendly, find a turbo diesel exhaust manifold from an AZZ, this should be the 4 bolt T25 turbo style flange, eBay used to sell an ATS knock off that had both T25 and T3 flange casted in to the exhaust manifold- why the T25?, This line has the best size to fueling that melds well with the vanagon and engine displacement.
Junkyard T25- Garrett from a Saab is a good start!

Fueling, on stock management, 5-8 psi is obtainable. If you need more 8-12, look for something from the corrado G60 it was a digifant system that was built/designed with boost in mind.

I'm full ABA using bits from an AEG using all 1.8T AEB management, I geek out and have a screw loose, I am not normal, but I enjoy it!

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:26 pm

rogertj wrote: Thinking to put a turbo after I save some money and change the heads to an original 2.0 engine heads. Please throw some heavy lip on me! Wish that the turbocharger was still on sale like Vanagonnut (JoeTiger) had on his Vanagon only eBay & amazon ones are available please let me know if there are other suppliers out there I'm thinking in squeezing the last dollar in savings in this conversion as putting more horsepower on it, but the real question would be how many horsepowers can I add with this set up? Thanks in advance!

Well the sky is the limit to how much HP you can add, but the more HP, the shorter the engine life. My 2.0L is an AVH not an ABA but before I went that route I was planning on a turbo ABA, and they do run great with a turbo. Mine has a Precision turbo, their smallest frame unit, and my setup puts out about 165 HP. Electronically controlled and injected though.

But carbureted, that's gonna be quite a bit tougher to get good driveability since you can't adjust mixture based on mass air flow and engine load. Easy to do on a drag car since you just have to idle (and quality of idle isn't important) and then run at wide open throttle. For street, you need to jet the carb for your maximum boost air mass, and it'll run rich at lower boost levels. Problem is the Velocity of air through the carburetor is mostly determined by RPM and that creates the suction that draws the gas in. When you boost it, the air gets much more dense, more mass/second, but the carb basically doesn't see the increase in mass (this is assuming you have a blow-through carb setup, not a pull-through setup with carb on the turbo air inlet). You have to add things like a boost controlled fuel pressure regulator to help out, and you can additional boost controlled injectors, but it gets complicated. You really need to retard timing at higher boost levels as well, and they make electronic kits for distributors for that, but again cost and complexity.

So you can make it work well if you really limit the boost level, and that of course limits the HP you can make. I don't know if anyone here has turbo'ed a carbureted ABA but if so, hopefully they can chime in with their experience.

Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:26 pm

rogertj wrote: Sorry for my confusion Vanagon Nut!....Ill look for that straight edge

No problem at all.

Apparently my speculation re: JoeTiger wrong! ;)

A machine shop may check the head for warpage for free?

Neil. Who is now considering a turbo ABA! ha ha. I have enough to do already. ;)

Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:11 pm

Vanagon Nut wrote: rogertj wrote: Sorry for my confusion Vanagon Nut!....Ill look for that straight edge

Neil. Who is now considering a turbo ABA! ha ha. I have enough to do already. ;)

They ARE fun! No doubt at all about that \:D/

Necessary? Practical? For those of us in our 4th childhood...who cares!! :D :D :D

Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:24 pm

So you have had that engine running in your van? If so was it running with the carburetor, or do you have the fuel injection system that goes with it? That engine is not an ABA engine. It appears to be the Ticco stuff which is pretty much all by itself. It’s a 1.8 block bored out to 2.0L. In general that is a buzzy engine (certainly mine is). If you want a turbo I would go find an engine that came that way with all the parts to install it (like out of a VW Passat). I understand that things are different where you live than where I live, but I think that would be your cheapest and best way out. John

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:09 pm

82westyrabbit wrote: So you have had that engine running in your van? If so was it running with the carburetor, or do you have the fuel injection system that goes with it? That engine is not an ABA engine. It appears to be the Ticco stuff which is pretty much all by itself. It’s a 1.8 block bored out to 2.0L. In general that is a buzzy engine (certainly mine is). If you want a turbo I would go find an engine that came that way with all the parts to install it (like out of a VW Passat). I understand that things are different where you live than where I live, but I think that would be your cheapest and best way out. John

Unless I'm mistaken, the "spare" engine he was looking at was a 2LR Tiico. The carbureted engine in the van is an ABA. The Tiico is a 1.8 block, not bored, just clearanced for a 2.0L crankshaft, with 2.0L rods, and I-5 2.5L pistons to get the correct pin height for the shorter deck. That makes the piston rod angle too low and creates the additional 'buzziness'. I had one of those charmers for 13 years and have the chipped teeth to prove it.

But yes, if wanting to go turbo, the only reasonable way to go, IMO, is swap in a FI system, either a digifant system (with upsized injectors and fuel pump) or a Megasquirt type aftermarket system. I doubt the OP would be happy with a turbo and carb. But, to each his own.

Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:06 pm

khughes wrote: Vanagon Nut wrote:
Neil. Who is now considering a turbo ABA! ha ha. I have enough to do already. ;)

They ARE fun! No doubt at all about that \:D/

Necessary? Practical? For those of us in our 4th childhood...who cares!! :D :D :D

Ack. Stop tempting me! LOL.

I need a reliable long term shop space for that kind of project!

Sorry for hijack rogertj

It's just my humble opinion but I'll take reliable over powerful any day. BUT.... the thrill of a turbo, advantage of better power at higher altitudes? That would be nice.

Neil.

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:55 am

Thanks, Vanagonnut, dkoesyncro, khughes, and 82westyrabbit for your comments

Yes my engine is a 2.0 ABA block cut at 30 at the machine shop after 2 years of hammering it (2010-2012) in 2012 I cut it in the machine shop at 30 (at least that's what the measurements machine shops call it here) (you can see in my pics what size of pistons does it currently has)

My plan, for now, is measure everything in the 2.0 that I just got out of a 1997 Jetta and replace what is needed. I guess rings are a must-do thing because I don't really know the procedure of when you disassemble them what happens next I guess they go to the recycle center? :roll:

I measured the purchased 2.0 block the other day and it gave me pretty near measurements to standard, tomorrow I'll trough out some pics of the measurements of the cylinders if I have the time ill disassemble the entire engine block and measure everything hope to have the time to do it I have a small place where I can figure it out. To build the engine back ill do it in parts with the old technique of lifting the van from the back and sliding the block beneath the van and lifting it up with a 7 feet 4x4 and some chains that I have :D

The heads that I have I already did them the other day but the engine began to smoke everyone on the street like if was a moving barbecue :D :shock:

So I think that the heads will be fine but I will check them anyways at the machine shop just to be sure.

So my timeline is as follows:
1.- Measure journals and cylinders on new (used) ABA block
2.- Write up the measurements like if it was a production plant procedure quality inspection sheet :D :shock:
3.- See the damage or yield that I have to use as is or to buy new parts (bearings and "rings most definitely")
4.- Hone the cylinders after making sure they are in standard measurement check the gap in used piston ring (just for giggles)
5.- Clean block in machine shop, check for warpage if any in the cylinder head area
6.- Change water plugs (does copper/bronze drain plugs)
7.- If all is in order begin assembling engine block after clean up (or maybe clean up first and then measuring???) all gaskets and seals
8.- Install engine block with new motor mounts/motor cross member because the one that I have its crappy... I hate it, in order to change a belt I need to disassemble the cross member... (I know a little bit of welding so wish me luck here)
9.- Install head gasket with its designated shellac and the temporary 1985' sh 1.8 heads
10.- give it a crank and rum rum rum! off she goes!

Ill post some photos here of the entire process

(Then after all this is done start buying parts for the fuel injected turbo and studying all the posts from members that have commented in this thread, must be very valuable information of a turbo ABA 2.0 engine somewhere)

Thanks everyone! Lets have some fun!

Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:24 am

Over on VW Vortex there is a page that's very lengthy it's almost an archive of 2.0 turbos. An actual recipe doesn't exist, years ago Kinetich and ATS had a sort of a plug and play system but thats been 20yrs ago.

Heat is the enemy, you'll have to negate that. A 50° install can crowd the turbo and van depending on turbo exhaust manifold; this can also effect the turbo oil drain too! USRT had a well designed exhaust manifold that could be flipped to better accommodate the drain better.

Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:53 am

rogertj wrote:
Yes my engine is a 2.0 ABA block

My plan, for now, is measure everything in the 2.0 that I just got out of a 1997 Jetta and replace what is needed. I guess rings are a must-do thing

So my timeline is as follows:
1.- Measure journals and cylinders on new (used) ABA block
2.- Write up the measurements like if it was a production plant procedure quality inspection sheet :D :shock:
3.- See the damage or yield that I have to use as is or to buy new parts (bearings and "rings most definitely")
4.- Hone the cylinders after making sure they are in standard measurement check the gap in used piston ring (just for giggles)
5.- Clean block in machine shop, check for warpage if any in the cylinder head area
6.- Change water plugs (does copper/bronze drain plugs)
7.- If all is in order begin assembling engine block after clean up (or maybe clean up first and then measuring???) all gaskets and seals

Yes. I would replace the piston rings and would measure piston dimensions. If you don't have a Bentley shop manual do an internet search for aba_aeg_repair.pdf

As you plan to do, taking pictures of everything really helps.

I tend to be "unorganized" but for my first time "serious" engine rebuild, I cleared off space on my bench, kept notes, took pictures, kept things clean and tried to be as methodical and organized as possible.

I'd never used Plastigauge before. It was easy and very useful to use. Especially on new bearings etc after machine shop did their work and checked crank journals etc dimensions.

re: intermediate shaft. At minimum, replace the intermediate shaft bearing at pulley end of engine. The bearing inside the block can be tough to replace. e.g. even my machine shop found it a challenge. (but they may not have had the right tools. There may be special tools for this job??)

edit: Search "intermediate shaft" here using forum name ?Waldo? for information on intermediate shaft bearing part numbers, bearing oil hole alignment, etc. Other members here know about those parts but ?Waldo? is the first user name I can think of.

A samba link to my ABA rebuild. Having help from more experienced people really helped.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=665147&highlight=aba+rebuild

Piston from the free ~ 250,000 KM ABA I rebuilt. Skirt wear looked bad, may have been within spec but I replaced the pistons.

Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:10 pm

My ABA has a bolt-on Neuspeed Supercharger. Super simple. It's not as powerful as a turbo but gets around well enough. The superchargers are rare these days, but do pop up on Ebay and Vortex from time to time.

ETA: Here's the definitive Vanagon ABA turbo thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=80

Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:07 pm

joetiger wrote: My ABA has a bolt-on Neuspeed Supercharger. Super simple. It's not as powerful as a turbo but gets around well enough. The superchargers are rare these days, but do pop up on Ebay and Vortex from time to time.

ETA: Here's the definitive Vanagon ABA turbo thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=80

Thanks for posting that. I knew I'd seen that long runner VW intake before.

@ the OP.

I don't know enough about turbo or supercharger on this engine and how that would affect things but if you decided to install your engine at 15º as it would be in a jetta, golf, that (ADP ?) intake manifold should help reduce engine height enough that the engine cover won't end up being much taller. Even on a 2wd Vanagon.

When mounted at 15º angle with engine crank center close to where WBX crank center would be, the "stock" ABA with stock cross flow intake requires ~ 4" increase in engine cover height. There are advantages to mounting the engine at 15º

- you keep the ABA steel oil pan
- you keep the ABA oil pump and pick up tube
- with the stock intake, you keep the stock "spider" coolant hose (easier to get at a FLAPS ??) I don't know if the intake shown requires a different coolant hose configuration.

With the engine at 15º, and exhaust mounted to engine, building a reliable exhaust system that won't crack too soon can be a challenge. Especially if you install a cat and use a long (2.1) muffler. If I ever did that swap again, I'd find the lightest universal fit cat possible, run a single short as possible pipe off single outlet manifold, use a 1.9 WBX or similar length/OD muffler and if needed, adapt the engine support at driver side allow this.

Neil.

Not sure if this is the exact same manifold but some more images here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php...t_dir=DESC

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