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Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:40 pm

Here's where I am at.

I've got my '54 in the shop to redo the brake system. So far we have:

- Replaced the rear axle seals.
- Replaced the rear wheel cylinders (19mm) with new Oval beetle front cylinders. Perfect fit. (thanks for the tip Everett and Greg)
- Replaced the master cylinder.
- Rebuilt the front wheel cylinders (22mm) using kits from NAPA. (Thanks for the tip Brendan)
- Put a new bushing in the brake pedal assembly.
- Replaced all the flex lines.
- Drums are fine

Questions:

Does anyone have new 22mm front cylinders?
Does anyone carry the brake shoes? Is relining the only option?

Info. greatly appreciated.

Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:30 am

Hi Jeff- As far as I've heard nobody has front cylinders nor shoes. Of course, there is supposedly always the possibility that you'll find the needle in the hay stack but I don't think anyone stocks them, at least that anyone I've spoken with is aware of. I've always heard that you just have to reline the shoes and I've seen some NOS pad and rivet sets on Ebay in the past. I think that Mark Smith may have had some??? Good luck!

Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:45 am

As far as I know, "new" front wheel cylinders for Barndoors are not available. The only time I have found any was a few times when I saw NOS ones for sale on the Internet. If yours are totally wasted, you could also get them sleeved, although I don't know who does that.

On the shoes, yeah, Mark Smith used to have some pad and rivet sets (he might still have some?) but Ronnie in Lake Havasu told me he got his relined at a place in SoCal.

Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:00 pm

Hello again Jeff- I have heard that most larger auto parts stores like Pep Boys and others that offer brake drum turning services usually can send your shoes out to have them relined. There was a place here in Pacific Beach called Foreign Auto Supply that I know was able to do it. They are no longer in this location and now I don't know where they are.

Sat Nov 02, 2002 3:17 pm

Thanks guys. I will get the shoes relined. There is a shop here that does the work in San Marcos.

As for the cylinders, I found that the 7/8" rebuild kits are the correct metric equivalent (22 mm). As for the rear cylinders (19mm) they can be purchased new from NAPA and some of the other shops. They are expensive at NAPA at almost $80 each. OVW in Escondidop has them for $39 each.

I talked to Wolfsburg West and they told me most guys run 19 mm in the front and rear. What is the thinking on this approach? Seems like you need all the braking you can get with those old brakes and going with smaller cylinders in front would hurt you. Do you guys think it makes a difference 22 or 19?

Mon Nov 04, 2002 3:37 pm

>I talked to Wolfsburg West and they told me most guys run 19 mm in the front and rear.
>
That sounds dangerous, it would mess up the front to back braking ratio? Who the heck does that? I need to make sure I drive behind them at all times.

The brakes on my '55 don't work very well right now, I'd hate to make them smaller.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:42 am

I know this is an old thread, but i thought i'd add to it rather than starting another on brakes. What i want to know is where to get front and rear brakes hoses for stock barndoor brakes. Wolfburg West list them but are they the same length as originals. I have 481.5mm for the fronts and 265mm for the rear. Anybody have any info on this?

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:01 am

Rusting Hulk wrote: I know this is an old thread, but i thought i'd add to it rather than starting another on brakes. What i want to know is where to get front and rear brakes hoses for stock barndoor brakes. Wolfburg West list them but are they the same length as originals. I have 481.5mm for the fronts and 265mm for the rear. Anybody have any info on this?

I've used later split bus rears on my stock barndoor.. Don't know about the fronts though ?

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:28 am

Rusting Hulk wrote: I know this is an old thread, but i thought i'd add to it rather than starting another on brakes. What i want to know is where to get front and rear brakes hoses for stock barndoor brakes. Wolfburg West list them but are they the same length as originals. I have 481.5mm for the fronts and 265mm for the rear. Anybody have any info on this?

Simon- 10 Foot Doug the Head just did bone stock brakes on his 1955 Barndoor Deluxe and I believe he bought all of his stuff through Wolfsburg West possibly. We should get him to post what he did in here so the information can be current. I believe he just used a later master cylinder, the post Barndoor 1955-1966 one, I know I did on my '53 and most guys I know do that.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:07 pm

Thanks Linda, if you could get Doug to confirm that the WW stuff was ok, i can order some. So for the master cylinder are we talking a stock 19mm one? I seem to remember Clara using a 356 one on her truck but i can't find that thread. I know real early busses had a 22mm master cylinder.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:34 pm

Rusting Hulk wrote: Thanks Linda, if you could get Doug to confirm that the WW stuff was ok, i can order some. So for the master cylinder are we talking a stock 19mm one? I seem to remember Clara using a 356 one on her truck but i can't find that thread. I know real early busses had a 22mm master cylinder.

Hi Simon- I know that most of us have just used the regular smaller one, I believe it's 19mm, that you can just order from anybody. It's the one that is designated "Thru 1966". It's smaller, yes, but it works and it works fine.
I believe Doug is still out of town so a answer may take a bit but I'll confirm it with him. I believe I gave you his email address or you could PM him directly.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:51 pm

Rusting Hulk wrote: I seem to remember Clara using a 356 one on her truck but i can't find that thread. I know real early busses had a 22mm master cylinder

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=167920
contains a couple of answers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:11 pm

Its been about 8 years since I really messed with BD brakes, but on an old 52 (that Troy Wheeler now owns) I could swear that we used oval wheel cylinders for the front and just had new pads put on the shoes. I cant remember why, but for some reason the oval cylinders worked and post 55 bus ones didn't. Am I nuts or does this sound right?

PS-I dont advise this, its just what I remember doing.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:34 pm

micro9301 wrote: Its been about 8 years since I really messed with BD brakes, but on an old 52 (that Troy Wheeler now owns) I could swear that we used oval wheel cylinders for the front and just had new pads put on the shoes. I cant remember why, but for some reason the oval cylinders worked and post 55 bus ones didn't. Am I nuts or does this sound right?

PS-I dont advise this, its just what I remember doing.

Drew- Lots of guys use Oval Window Fronts on the Rear of Barndoors. Is that what you guys might have done?

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:21 pm

I guess so, long time ago. Something was weird about it, maybe the bolt pattern didn't match right???

What rubber pieces would one use to rebulid a set of correct barndoor cylinders, assuming all metal parts are OK? [/i]

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:35 pm

micro9301 wrote: I guess so, long time ago. Something was weird about it, maybe the bolt pattern didn't match right???

What rubber pieces would one use to rebulid a set of correct barndoor cylinders, assuming all metal parts are OK? [/i]

You can get the wheel cylinder rebuild kits straight off the shelf at NAPA auto parts for about $7 each. They include a pair of rubber dust caps and a rubber piston I believe. Really simple but if your metal cylinders are in good shape, they might be all you need.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:36 pm

Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:39 pm

campingbox wrote: Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff.

Eh Greg- Don't worry, Doug has two things he's been talking about doing. First is talk of installing a late model dual reservoir master cylinder and the other is talk of lowering the Bus and installing either 356 brakes all the way around or possibly discs.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:39 pm

BUCIOBATISTI wrote: micro9301 wrote: Its been about 8 years since I really messed with BD brakes, but on an old 52 (that Troy Wheeler now owns) I could swear that we used oval wheel cylinders for the front and just had new pads put on the shoes. I cant remember why, but for some reason the oval cylinders worked and post 55 bus ones didn't. Am I nuts or does this sound right?

PS-I dont advise this, its just what I remember doing.

Drew- Lots of guys use Oval Window Fronts on the Rear of Barndoors. Is that what you guys might have done?

The front wheel cylinders are N.L.A.. Oval fronts are the same size as barndoor rears. They are two bolt instead of four but they fit up and work fine. If you're front cylinders are fucked up you can have new stainless steel sleeves put into them. It's pricey but atleast you know they'll never rust.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:41 pm

BUCIOBATISTI wrote: campingbox wrote: Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff.

Eh Greg- Don't worry, Doug has two things he's been talking about doing. First is talk of installing a late model dual reservoir master cylinder and the other is talk of lowering the Bus and installing either 356 brakes all the way around or possibly discs.

Is that before or after he chops the nose off his '60 23 and welds it to the back of his '55 23?