TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:08 am

Hi I have a technical question relating to one of my vans and this one is an 89 T3 Syncro Caravelle 1.6TD JX. I'm restoring the car to its orginal glory including the JX engine.
Here is a link to the car on my Local foorum.

https://tolkkifoorumi.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4486&start=100

My question is related to the Orginal "Charge Air Cooler" (yes the thing that is always removed as it does nothing) I would like to reinstall it just as a quriosity as practicly none are any more left in the cars. Here is a link to the Part listing.

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/typ+2+syncro/t2/1989-59/9/959-148050/

The assrmbly is the one in my car topic with a lot of puctures.

The issue is that I do not remember how thepipe should be fixed to the engine. I'm doing something wrong as I seem to get just one screw holding it in place and I'm left with two parts on the table. Here is some pictures of the parts.

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Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:01 pm

Wow Osku, that van looks NEW!

There were not many 1.6TD JX imported to the USA,
so I think the number of members who know about these parts is few.

I have never even SEEN a 1.6TD JX, but I offer my reply.....
----->so your thread will rise to the top again,
maybe someone who can help will see it. :wink:

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:07 pm

Osku wrote: I don’t know anything about the JX it looks like a simple intercooler that has the pressure tube wrapped in cooling fins. Something like this would be the modern aluminum version:
http://www.allpurposepipes.com/pre-intercooler-cooling-pipe-a-pre_intercooler_cooling_pipe.html

My assumption is that since you are in Finland this was a cold climates model where hot intake was not a problem.

The parts catalog you linked to may not be your model, since it shows an electric fan. Did you find a fan? If you can post a picture of the entire tube with cooling fins and any other related parts it might help. Basically the pressure air from the turbo will go through that cooling tube into the manifold.

Nice looking metal though!

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:18 pm

Hi Osku,

Here is the page from the VW parts microfiche for this component of your JX.

Does this help with your questions?

Cheers,
Trevor

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:29 pm

No it don't as that is the same picture as in the question, and I have the parts in the picture I just do not figure out how I should assemble them to the engine, as I end up with two parts(9,13) wich do not find a place and one(17) is attached with just one screw.
The main issue is that this picture just shows the parts needed but not how to assemble it.

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:40 pm

I believe that's not a charge cooler, but rather it's simply a fan which removes hot air from (or blows cool air into) the engine compartment. I think these were only found on the JX powered vans.

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:06 am

You are absolutely right but VW has falsely named it charge air cooler, so in real life it cools the whole turbo by blowing cold air on it. This is thoght to help reduse the turbos temperature and thus cooling both the air charge and prolonging the life span of the turbo.In real life it does do non werey well. So if one describes it to some one then a turbo blower would be better but that is not the name VW used, they used Charce Air Cooler, you can se it in the link in the question.

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:29 am

In the VW Parts info I have it shows as a Syncro part.
My understanding is that some Syncros had it to blow air on the turbo to cool it before crossing deep water. The turbo is mounted pretty low in JX engines.

Never seen the parts other than the drawing. I wonder how many Syncros really had it from the factory and what the official purpose was.

Mark

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:06 am

It is termostate controlled so if temperature is high enough it blows it does know nothing about if your going to take a swim.

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:13 am

Thanks, can you share where the thermostat for it is located?
Is it the same one as the electric coolant pump uses?

Mark

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:35 pm

A friend of mine suposed that the syncro part is due to the fact that syncros are more incapsulated (dirt covers and panzar) and might take more power with less speed crawling in the terrain so not that much wind cooling in such a situation and hench need for extra cooling with a fan.

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:41 pm

Yes it is the same one as the coolant pump uses.

Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:11 pm

Osku wrote: A friend of mine suposed that the syncro part is due to the fact that syncros are more incapsulated (dirt covers and panzar) and might take more power with less speed crawling in the terrain so not that much wind cooling in such a situation and hence need for extra cooling with a fan.
Overland driving doesn’t produce that much exhaust heat. A more likely explanation is that cold water on a hot turbo can crack the cast iron exhaust side. The fan must have been thermostatically activated to reduce the turbo case temperture so to not crack from thermal contraction.
This would be part of the Syncro package that included a specially designed snorkel on the bellhousing. Its purpose was to allow cooling airflow through the clutch while preventing cold water from getting up into the bellhousing. Apparently when the hot gearbox got submerged in cold water the vacuum created would suck in water and grit through the input shaft seal. It seems the Germans field tested these units extensively before settling on the final design.

Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:33 am

That is a good hypothesis, so could be. I was always told it was suposed to hinder the turbo from dying a heath death, as it "after cooled" it like the waterpump also did, still after the engine was shut down for a few of minutes depending on the engine temperature (Sometimes when the systems breaks it stays on and drains the battery as if the termostate won't click of)
And when I mentioned terrain I was talking about negotiating hard terrain and mountens with the G-gear with just a couple of mph not driving over sahara in the 4th-gear.

Sadly the German instalation instructions for the cooling (Charge air cooler /turbo cooling fan) have dissapeared, as VW do not have the information anymore (I have asked in both Finland and Germany). So here I am trying to ask for pictures of how the pipe should be mounted.
I remember taking these pipes of back in the day as the consensus was that the system is pointless und thus never payed attention to how it was mounted. Most of the time the system was badly coroded, so most of the pipe was not anymore there. I suspect that some parts had usually disapeared(Due to either corrosion or ratling lose) as the pipes tended to ratle (one reason people did not want the pipe on ther cars).
I spared the best part from the ones I had dismanteled back in the days and then realized when it came to restoring the van that I do not remember how it should be mounted. Next I looked in the parts listing realized there was a couple of parts I did not have, thought maby thats way they always ratled ordered the parts from VW just to realize that I still do not have a clue how it should be mounted and that with the added parts the puzzle become just more confusing.

An intresting detail was that as my Van also had the Real tune up (Water to Air) Intercooler from Oetinger, I am also restoring that one. Must say that Oetinger has beter check on their papers than what VW has, as I could order the complet instalation manual for 30€ from Oetinger with all the nessesary information. Sadly not the same with VW. On the other hand the oetinger set I can't get spare parts too, so I have to restore every single one of the parts my self or find a replasement so on that again VW suplied better.
This is propably the slowest car with two charge air coolers maxing the engine to (did oetinger promise 90hp in comparison to orginal 69 without the Oetinger setup).
(1. The VW one that is only to name an charge air cooler and 2. the Oetinger setup that realy does something and is an intercooler as we know them today)

Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:12 am

I thoght I would a couple of pictures with the pipe where I think it should maby it helps and if not atleast the topic stays active and more people will se it.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:34 am

The German VW sugested I would look into ERWIN (https://erwin.volkswagen.de) This is behind a paywall, I do not have the intrest to pay for it just to findout that it only contains the same info as Zap or Etka wich I have already looked into. Does someone here have the access to Erwin so they could look into it is it worth the trouble.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:42 am

Oksu

Aren’t those parts 9, 11, 14 in the diagram provided!

Hyvää uutta vuotta!

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:47 am

Yes but Do you understand where they should be installed, that is the issue.
I started to install this assembly but I did not get the pipe installed so I found that diagram and realized there was two parts I did not have so I ordered them. When I got the parts I was even more confused as I started with one part that did not fit and ordered two more. So I'm looking for assembly instructions on where exactly and how the parts should fit. In the instructin attached twice to this cahin the engine where everything should be mounted is depicted should I say a bit abstract. And we are talking about parts 9,13,17

Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:34 pm

I just want to keep you intrested in this topic so that if some one has any info on the parts then they would se it so just as a conversation I also Linked two of my other VWans here.

Here is my TDi syncros engine swap thread.
https://tolkkifoorumi.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1...1e5#p53214

Here is the rest of the TDi syncro
https://tolkkifoorumi.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1...cro#p58594

Here is my T1 Project
its getting there but still a hell of a lot to do.
https://tolkkifoorumi.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4557&p=58759&hilit=Oskun#p58759

Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:06 am

Hopefully that will help you with your JX Syncro turbo fan cooling