TheSamba.com :: View topic - Opinions Wanted! Best ignition used w/distributor on the market?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:08 pm

Alstrup wrote: If you like/want the classic look of the 010, then go Dub shop crank trigger and use a msd 6al2 programmeable.

I doubt you will hit 200 hp. But you will be close. Most likely low 190's
What ingredients would you change to get closer to 200, while staying carb'd N/A, and still be not annoying on the street?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:14 pm

vwracerdave wrote: Putting crank fire on will completely ruin the nostalgic look of the classic 010.

That depends on the system. There are more than one "stealth" crank trigger set ups on the market.
britegreenVWSB wrote:
What ingredients would you change to get closer to 200, while staying carb'd N/A, and still be not annoying on the street?
Install true 44 mm intake seats and valves while keeping most of the port as is. It´ll be a completely different animal. MUCH more midrange torque and 10ish more hp on top.

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:18 pm

Crank Trigger with locked out 009. throw a big cap cast iron in its place if you want a more “nostalgic “look. Oh its EFI as well. 😎

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:21 pm

britegreenVWSB wrote: Alstrup wrote: If you like/want the classic look of the 010, then go Dub shop crank trigger and use a msd 6al2 programmeable.

I doubt you will hit 200 hp. But you will be close. Most likely low 190's
What ingredients would you change to get closer to 200, while staying carb'd N/A, and still be not annoying on the street?

You might be 200 HP without the belt on and adding pro stock velocity stacks on the carbs. Running with the belt takes 10-12 HP. Running a power pulley can get you somewhere in-between but not very street friendly. Those venturie screens are restrictive robbing 3-5 HP.

As you are driving it with the stock sized pulley and stock velocity stacks with screens, I'd guess your more closer to 185 HP.

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:36 pm

KROC wrote: Crank Trigger with locked out 009. throw a big cap cast iron in its place if you want a more “nostalgic “look. Oh its EFI as well. 😎
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2289648

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:43 pm

How did you lock it out?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:25 am

He already has a TOP QUALITY distributor.
Compatible with modern ignition controllers.
Don't need to change a thing about it, you can HOTROD what you got.

What is this a fashion show? His distributor is too fat. :lol:
You guys think I'm so crazy, I was 100% right. I'm so right, it's freaky

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:30 am

Alstrup wrote:
britegreenVWSB wrote:
What ingredients would you change to get closer to 200, while staying carb'd N/A, and still be not annoying on the street?
Install true 44 mm intake seats and valves while keeping most of the port as is. It´ll be a completely different animal. MUCH more midrange torque and 10ish more hp on top.

this is really something to consider...I just had a pair of brand new CB CNC ported 42x37.5 heads worked over by a buddy of mine who is a phenomenal head builder. He completely reshaped the 42 seats, gave them a proper 4 angle cut job for a 44mm valve, and hand blended the bowls and chambers. Picked up massive CFM numbers while simultaneously decreasing port volume and picking up average velocity. ALSO corrected the I/E ratio because of the overly-efficient exhaust side. With nothing else changed in the engine, these 44x37.5 heads would definitely outperform the engine with the previous 'out of the box' 42x37.5

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:05 pm

chrisflstf wrote: How did you lock it out?

You use a longer than stock screw in the hole that used to retain the vacuum canister that now butts up against the points plate holding it fully advanced. the spring is also removed from the equation.

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:54 pm

If you're going with a crank trigger you don't need to lock it since the points/electronic module is not inside.

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:16 pm

Pertronix. Works just fine, seemingly.

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:01 pm

richierich wrote:

Pertronix. Works just fine, seemingly.
Until it doesn't.

Built a 1914 for a customer and he insisted on the same Pertronix distributor. A year later he was getting erratic advance. We found that the mechanical advance plate is crimped to the mainshaft and it now rotates a few degrees by itself. I replaced with a Bosch 010, which I originally wanted to install, and not it works perfectly.

Also the Pertronix distributor has a linear advance where Bosch distributors have an actual curve.

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:13 pm

sled wrote: Alstrup wrote:
britegreenVWSB wrote:
What ingredients would you change to get closer to 200, while staying carb'd N/A, and still be not annoying on the street?
Install true 44 mm intake seats and valves while keeping most of the port as is. It´ll be a completely different animal. MUCH more midrange torque and 10ish more hp on top.

this is really something to consider...I just had a pair of brand new CB CNC ported 42x37.5 heads worked over by a buddy of mine who is a phenomenal head builder. He completely reshaped the 42 seats, gave them a proper 4 angle cut job for a 44mm valve, and hand blended the bowls and chambers. Picked up massive CFM numbers while simultaneously decreasing port volume and picking up average velocity. ALSO corrected the I/E ratio because of the overly-efficient exhaust side. With nothing else changed in the engine, these 44x37.5 heads would definitely outperform the engine with the previous 'out of the box' 42x37.5

How did your head porter go about decreasing the port volume? Thanks.

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:03 pm

KROC wrote: sled wrote: Alstrup wrote:
britegreenVWSB wrote:
What ingredients would you change to get closer to 200, while staying carb'd N/A, and still be not annoying on the street?
Install true 44 mm intake seats and valves while keeping most of the port as is. It´ll be a completely different animal. MUCH more midrange torque and 10ish more hp on top.

this is really something to consider...I just had a pair of brand new CB CNC ported 42x37.5 heads worked over by a buddy of mine who is a phenomenal head builder. He completely reshaped the 42 seats, gave them a proper 4 angle cut job for a 44mm valve, and hand blended the bowls and chambers. Picked up massive CFM numbers while simultaneously decreasing port volume and picking up average velocity. ALSO corrected the I/E ratio because of the overly-efficient exhaust side. With nothing else changed in the engine, these 44x37.5 heads would definitely outperform the engine with the previous 'out of the box' 42x37.5

How did your head porter go about decreasing the port volume? Thanks.

Darren, the ports lost right at 2cc volume from the larger valve head sitting further down in the port. Real filler was discussed, but we decided against it. The heads will be for sale soon, and I figured it would make people skeptical if they were filled. I gained 19.6cfm @ .450", 23cfm @ .500", and 25cfm @ .550" just with the correct size valve and blending the slight seat to port ridge. Zero port work.

Brian

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:41 pm

Brian_e wrote: KROC wrote: sled wrote: Alstrup wrote:
britegreenVWSB wrote:
What ingredients would you change to get closer to 200, while staying carb'd N/A, and still be not annoying on the street?
Install true 44 mm intake seats and valves while keeping most of the port as is. It´ll be a completely different animal. MUCH more midrange torque and 10ish more hp on top.

this is really something to consider...I just had a pair of brand new CB CNC ported 42x37.5 heads worked over by a buddy of mine who is a phenomenal head builder. He completely reshaped the 42 seats, gave them a proper 4 angle cut job for a 44mm valve, and hand blended the bowls and chambers. Picked up massive CFM numbers while simultaneously decreasing port volume and picking up average velocity. ALSO corrected the I/E ratio because of the overly-efficient exhaust side. With nothing else changed in the engine, these 44x37.5 heads would definitely outperform the engine with the previous 'out of the box' 42x37.5

How did your head porter go about decreasing the port volume? Thanks.

Darren, the ports lost right at 2cc volume from the larger valve head sitting further down in the port. Real filler was discussed, but we decided against it. The heads will be for sale soon, and I figured it would make people skeptical if they were filled. I gained 19.6cfm @ .450", 23cfm @ .500", and 25cfm @ .550" just with the correct size valve and blending the slight seat to port ridge. Zero port work.

Brian

23cfm gain @.500 really? Are you using 10 inches of water and converting to 25?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:35 pm

Measured with an Audietech Flow Quick and converted to 28". Actual depression usually runs around 26".

Brian

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:39 pm

Brian_e wrote: Measured with an Audietech Flow Quick and converted to 28". Actual depression usually runs around 26".

Brian

What are you using to pull 26" of water?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:58 pm

2 vac. motors.

My bench was built by AudieTech for them to use as a display at the PRI show. A shop here in town bought it straight from Audie and used it a couple times, then I bought it from them.

Brian

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:15 pm

Imho the problem is that in general the 37,5 mm exh valve is too big for the 42 intake, unless you are after high rpm hp Most ported heads by hand or CNC with that combination run I/E ratios of over 80. That´s good for peak power in the 7700 to over 8 grand range. But how many engines really peak that high (?) not many. That said the Tims family has overcome this problem, to an extend by keeping the exhaust port conservative so it creates a decent port velocity. The Stage II´s have good relation. Never measured the 3´s, but a simple look at the ports shows that the heads are meant for more rpms.

Now, I don´t know, because I have never discussed it with anyone, but I´m pretty sure that is the very same reason the CB miniwedges now have a 43 mm intake valve. Theoreticly, with the more efficient intake, with (almost) the same port volume reduces the I/E ratio to under 80. Most likely 78ish. That´s where the heads begin to work well also at lower rpms.
If we look away from the Tims stage II and possibly the new mini wedges (also because they are now 43/37,5) most ported heads with the 42/37,5 valve combo, pull fair hp and revs well above the curve, but have trouble pulling 100 Nm per liter displacement. also they work the best on medium displacement engines with agressive cams, so the engine revs high before peak.
With the 44/37,5 valve combo most heads have an I/E ratio around 75. That is much better for all round power and usually these engines have no problem hitting 110 Nm/L in good combo´s.
A shiny example is the now obsolete DRD L6 heads. Some 4 years ago (I think, maybe 5. Time flies) I had a person approach me with a 2332 type 1 with all the tricks and IDA´s. He was promised approx 200 hp, but it would´nt pull more than just north of 170 and with only 200 Nm torque. He was very disappointed. We took the heads off and I got some true 44 mm seats in and corrected the port in the bowl area. I hardly touched the port from the guide and up. In all fairness I also bumped the CR from 10,3 to 11-1. But these two mods raised the power to 190 and 230 Nm torque. A season later we swopped the cam to another brand with the same seat duration and a tad more lift and got a true 200 hp and 260 Nm engine. I have done similar with other heads and gained good usable power, even with 40 x 35 valved heads where the exhaust had been hogged out for high rpm racing and the rest of the engine was designed for peak around 6 grand.
Another one was a Lotus Esprit I helped rebuild back in ´12 or 13, where we basicly did the same thing only with changing the intake cam a little. A skilled cam grinder who knew this type of engine better than we did added 5 degrees @ 0,050" and 0,010" of lift to the intake cam. Everything else the same, even the boost, and the engine went from 215ish to 240 hp and pulled significantly better through the rpms.
Balance is important when you are chasing power, and not just the dynamic :wink:

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:40 pm

Brian_e wrote: 2 vac. motors.

My bench was built by AudieTech for them to use as a display at the PRI show. A shop here in town bought it straight from Audie and used it a couple times, then I bought it from them.

Brian

Do you have a actual water column that shows how many inches of water your really pulling? Even with 4 vacuums I find it hard to believe you can pull 26 inches of water in the 180-200 cfm range. If you can duplicate your CFM numbers against other known good numbers then great. But your numbers seem EXTREMELY generous.