TheSamba.com :: View topic - Opinions Wanted! Best ignition used w/distributor on the market?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:08 am

Brian_e wrote: I will keep an eye out for a monometer to add to my caveman bench. 😁 Then you will have a little piece of mind, and I will learn more.

In the meantime, I will keep building these heads and engines, and keep exceeding customer's power expectations while utilizing my inaccurate flow bench. 😜🤗

Brian

Lets be clear. This is not about modern vs new technolgy. And its not about me saying total flow is the most important.

Of course repeatability is the most important thing. KROC is correct, even if the bench is off, as long as its repeatable who cares its just a tool for learning.

But if you are bragging online about CERTAIN airflow numbers that you get via 1 mod or total flow, now those numbers DO need to make sense, and they are being used for something different then learning.

When you said you got 20cfm from the change you made, that made me want to probe deeper. Because your using a homebuilt bench I didnt know what reference points your using for calibration. When you said you have not checked it against a real water column or manometer, I suggested to. That way you know, and you have multiple points of reference and not relying solely on a computer. If your not pulling the amount of water column that you think your pulling, then all your numbers will be off. Not only that, whatever gets converted from actual to estimated water column is exxaggerated even more. If your gonna use the tool for advertising numbers online, now they need to make sense to everyone and be correct. This is when being off or not DOES matter.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:40 am

I'll bet 97% of the people reading this have absolutely no clue what flow bench numbers mean any how.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:03 am

I’m still wondering what the best ignition is?!?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:15 am

Well i'm still on points and a blue coil :lol: on a turbo motor
And it works well for a street car.

My idea of a distributor up grade would be a bosch big cap with svda inners and a dvda vac can, Then some sort of big coil running through a points delete module and a modified rotor.
The above probably wont work will it.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 am

vwracerdave wrote: I'll bet 97% of the people reading this have absolutely no clue what flow bench numbers mean any how.

Come on everyone knows the bigger the numbers the more you get to brag. 8) It's the automotive equivalent to pulling out your wiener and a ruler. :wink:

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:28 am

Dave, you are correct. Heads, just like oil pumps, cams, carbs and headers.....most people think bigger is better.

Jeff, I am sorry if I lead you astray with my numbers. I use my bench almost 100% for A/B testing to see if I am gaining or not. Exactly what it is intended for, and exactly what I did with this test. I calibrated the controller, tested the head with a 42mm valve, did a valve job, calibrated the bench again, and then tested with a 44mm valve. After the 2 tests, I saw a 20+ CFM gain. This was measured by and corrected to 28" in my bench controller. It does the conversions automatically, and it has been found to be extremely accurate by 2 others on here, and by David Vizard. He mentioned 2.8% difference at low lifts, 2.2% .200-.500", only .9% above .500". His numbers were compared to a very high dollar, very powerful SuperFlow 600 bench at a fixed 28". He gives great reviews of this style flow bench. He even mentions the "Audie unit produced repeatability figures that are closer than typically measured between two identical fixed-depression style benches".

It was these very knowledgeable people who make me believe a classic manometer is unnecessary. True, a manometer would give one more verification, but myself and others dont think it is necessary. How many guys have multiple ways to calibrate their dyno's and post numbers without a standard calibration? It was mentioned somewhere these newer style bench controllers are making manometers and calculation obsolete.

This whole thing was only mentioned because it was a learning experience for myself and others, and it confirmed a few things I have been discussing with other guys who build heads. I was not "bragging" about my high CFM numbers, only showing what can be done quickly and easily when the numbers all line up. I like to try and help people understand what is going on, and I felt posting the findings might help that. The VW scene

Just so this stays relevant, I have been cruising my bus with a super cheap china 009, :shock: pertronix, used plug wires, and a fake blue coil in my sweep the floor 1835cc. Starts every time, and runs just fine.

Peace, I'm out..
Brian

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:36 am

Brian_e wrote:
Jeff, I am sorry if I lead you astray with my numbers.

I was not lead astray myself, I was concerned more about others that attempt the same thing and are let down with lower numbers.

Brian_e wrote: It does the conversions automatically, and it has been found to be extremely accurate by 2 others on here, and by David Vizard. He gives great reviews of this style flow bench. It was these very knowledgeable people who make me believe a classic manometer is unnecessary.

Ummmm other people testing their flowbench doesn't calibrate your own flow bench just because they have the same brand. Unless you want to call it a "Name drop calibration". Its all good, I just mentioned it would be a nice way to see for yourself.

Brian_e wrote: How many guys have multiple ways to calibrate their dyno's and post numbers without a standard calibration?

Are you serious? Its easy, you hang measured weight off the centerline of the axis of the dyno. Its the most purest form of verification. Foot pounds of torque is verified in pounds of weight. It took me a hour to do this.

Brian_e wrote: It was mentioned somewhere these newer style bench controllers are making manometers and calculation obsolete.

I absolutely agree. People are talking about industry standard $10,000+ flowbenches that are calibrated from the factory and have the power to flow 28 inches of water with no conversion factor, not a $700 do it yourself kit with 2 shop vacs. If you simply connected a water column up to your bench, you could at Least see your actual inches of water. This is easy and people do this all the time with the Audie flow quick.

Here is a example, notice the actual water column to the left:

All that said, I know you do awesome work and everyone in the VW community is lucky to have you. Hopefully, there are more folks like you keeping up the research and effort.

You have that 1/8 mile drag strip 30 mins from your place right? Get some of those heads on some engines and put some times to those I/E ratios that are so textbook perfect :lol:

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:50 am

My contribution to the Hi-Po distributor/ignition "for the best price" option.

The MSD copy, (if it doesn't break in half) combined with a High output CDI would be the most reliable and highest performing combo for a very reasonable cost. My Genuine MSD distributor replacement mag pickup that came in a MSD package is indeed made in China. But the stlye of Mag pickup is super reliable. The Huge reluctor is the same as what comes in OEM mag pickup distributors, and even when weak and old, these things still work. (unlike points replacements that have small surface area and weaker magnets.)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volkswagen-H4-1954-79-Rac...2749.l2649

The bright red cap doesn't exactly "blend" in a vintage look, so just throwing a idea out there, this is what I did to my MSD to calm down the boy racer look some.

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:57 pm

Damn, that looks so cool! VHT wrinckle paint? I used that om my engine tin, but never thought of using it in the dist. Leads looks cool to!

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:10 pm

One of the 97%, and proud of it!

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:36 pm

When everybody goes out in the morning and gets in their car, they don't need to calibrate the mass air flow sensor on a superflow nor calibrate or the map sensor with a manometer.
They are calibrated at the factory and just work, as you said.
A flow bench built with the same technology of course, CAN work, and does work. It actually rather LATE on the scene.
We know it works because there are probably 2 billion of them out there and 99.5% are working perfect, everyday. Of course there are some concerns.
One is that they may be sensitive to contamination. I would maybe be careful not to get it too much metal chips and oil and carbon through it, which could contaminate the sensors, while with my heap it can eat things a shop vacuum could not swallow. Pros and cons That electric stuff is darn sensitive to contaminants, like paint on insulators. hmmmm
Of course I love OLD technology but of course new technology DOES work, often better, if you can even call it new, it's probably 20 years old.

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:23 pm

flat4olsen wrote: Damn, that looks so cool! VHT wrinckle paint? I used that om my engine tin, but never thought of using it in the dist. Leads looks cool to!

Yes VHT Wrinkle black,

I did the coil and cdi also:

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:29 pm

I'm in a similar situation on the ignition debate. I'm running an old Mallory Unilite with vacuum advance and its no longer in production and parts will soon be hard to get. I'm bouncing back and forth between Pertronix and a Magnapsark. I was advised that based on my engine setup that I probably should ditch the vacuum advance. 2110, 9:1, Steve Tims 42x37, 48's, Webcam 42C. I'm looking for plug and play easy.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:11 am

In anything other than a desert climate, that wrinkle paint on the cap and insulators is asking for trouble. Slightest bit of moisture along with dust and there will be shorting. Fred

jpaull wrote: flat4olsen wrote: Damn, that looks so cool! VHT wrinckle paint? I used that om my engine tin, but never thought of using it in the dist. Leads looks cool to!

Yes VHT Wrinkle black,

I did the coil and cdi also:

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:00 am

henrym wrote: I'm in a similar situation on the ignition debate. I'm running an old Mallory Unilite with vacuum advance and its no longer in production and parts will soon be hard to get. I'm bouncing back and forth between Pertronix and a Magnapsark. I was advised that based on my engine setup that I probably should ditch the vacuum advance. 2110, 9:1, Steve Tims 42x37, 48's, Webcam 42C. I'm looking for plug and play easy.
Webcam 42C (?) don´t know that one...Why on earth would anybody in their right mind recommend you to ditch the vacum advance ???
You have a very nice distributor already. When the vacum can folds, go buy a CB Black box and hook that up to it, and you will still have a very nice set up.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:02 am

Another option is to use the vacuum advance can from a 36hp bug distributor.

I agree, the Unilites are a great distributor, very stable and precise timing.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:06 am

j-dub wrote: Another option is to use the vacuum advance can from a 36hp bug distributor.

I agree, the Unilites are a great distributor, very stable and precise timing. Did you read the OP's post?
britegreenVWSB wrote: In a high performance application,
The VJU4BR8 has only 17 degrees mechanical advance.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:33 am

Fred Winterburn wrote: In anything other than a desert climate, that wrinkle paint on the cap and insulators is asking for trouble. Slightest bit of moisture along with dust and there will be shorting. Fred

jpaull wrote: flat4olsen wrote: Damn, that looks so cool! VHT wrinckle paint? I used that om my engine tin, but never thought of using it in the dist. Leads looks cool to!

Yes VHT Wrinkle black,

I did the coil and cdi also:

Fred, appreciate the warning. I think your thinking this wrinkle finish is raised up abit more then it actually is. The plug wire boots fit tight and no moisture is getting by. It made it through the winter sitting outside and the terminals are nice and dry, plus runs without issue.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:15 pm

No, that's not the issue. High voltage insulating surfaces are glass smooth on purpose to repel water and reduce the amount of dirt collected which makes the condition much worse. Look at any power line with glass insulators if you need an example. In a real winter with snow melt or wet climate, that cap would be shorting to ground all over the place. Same with the coil tower. Relying solely on the integrity of tight fitting boots doesn't leave much margin. Fred

jpaull wrote: Fred Winterburn wrote: In anything other than a desert climate, that wrinkle paint on the cap and insulators is asking for trouble. Slightest bit of moisture along with dust and there will be shorting. Fred

jpaull wrote: flat4olsen wrote: Damn, that looks so cool! VHT wrinckle paint? I used that om my engine tin, but never thought of using it in the dist. Leads looks cool to!

Yes VHT Wrinkle black,

I did the coil and cdi also:

Fred, appreciate the warning. I think your thinking this wrinkle finish is raised up abit more then it actually is. The plug wire boots fit tight and no moisture is getting by. It made it through the winter sitting outside and the terminals are nice and dry, plus runs without issue.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:17 pm

I am using a Crane LX92 that has 910 ohms of secondary resistance/.23 primary resistance combined with one of the few CDI boxes that can drive it, so I could see where less then perfect connections are a concern. I like the thinking that my spark plug wires are like 40+kv transmission lines!

In the interest of safety, I have a idea! Free advertising! Please everyone install a Winterburn CDI and have the lowest spark output of all CDI's. That way, you can spray water on a wrinkle finish distributor cap while the engines running and still not have a worry in the world about that tiny spark leaving home :wink:

Fred Winterburn wrote: No, that's not the issue. High voltage insulating surfaces are glass smooth on purpose to repel water and reduce the amount of dirt collected which makes the condition much worse. Look at any power line with glass insulators if you need an example. In a real winter with snow melt or wet climate, that cap would be shorting to ground all over the place. Same with the coil tower. Relying solely on the integrity of tight fitting boots doesn't leave much margin. Fred

jpaull wrote: Fred Winterburn wrote: In anything other than a desert climate, that wrinkle paint on the cap and insulators is asking for trouble. Slightest bit of moisture along with dust and there will be shorting. Fred

jpaull wrote: flat4olsen wrote: Damn, that looks so cool! VHT wrinckle paint? I used that om my engine tin, but never thought of using it in the dist. Leads looks cool to!

Yes VHT Wrinkle black,

I did the coil and cdi also:

Fred, appreciate the warning. I think your thinking this wrinkle finish is raised up abit more then it actually is. The plug wire boots fit tight and no moisture is getting by. It made it through the winter sitting outside and the terminals are nice and dry, plus runs without issue.