TheSamba.com :: View topic - Colorado just deemed my conversion illegal

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:40 am

I bought my `91 Westy two years ago. t had subaru conversion from Rocky Mountain Westy done by the prior owner in 2011. So could not have had a more quality conversion done to my knowledge. II had previously gone to get emmissions 3 times in two years with no questions, not to mention the 9 years of emissions test by the previous owner.

The other day I went and they said "You don't have a form DR2365 on file for your engine swap registered with the state. We can't test you until you call this number to bring it in and have the state emissions technicians certify your engine swap that it has all the require parts." They gave me this form.

I made an appointment and went in and got this ad news. "Your conversion is not legal. You are missing several key components to the emissions system like a second catalytic converter, evaporative cannister is missing, and few other items." We had a long talk. I called RMW in the meantime and this has apparently being coming up more in the last year. The best they could tell me was try another location and they would have the owner give me a ring.

I'll try another location but it seems pretty obvious this form is now under the vehicle's record with the Department of Revenue which is shared with AirCare Colorado (how they knew I did not have the DR2365 in the first place) and they also control vehicle registration.
I had a long talk with the mechanic how deemed this illegal and he mentioned that until it is registered with the state and it passes this type of inspection it is not legal. He basically told me options are to either A) revert to the original engine or B) get the KEP conversion kit because it is the only one certified in the nation.

Pretty bummed. Not sure what to do. I think more people will see this in Colorado and I don't think it is limited to Rocky Mountain Westy conversions.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:48 am

thats really a shame, especially since it sounds like the rules may be shifting?..

jmurret wrote:
Pretty bummed. Not sure what to do. I think more people will see this in Colorado and I don't think it is limited to Rocky Mountain Westy conversions.

regardless... id be looking at non resident SD or MT registration and getting some new plates :)

https://www.dirtlegal.com/blog/how-to-register-you...a-resident

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:52 am

Boy I'm liking my WBX'r more and more!

Seriously...... that's a bummer.
I had no clue Colorado had been Californicated.

Dave

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:59 am

YIKES!!!!!

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:59 am

Looks like this happened back in 2020.

"Beginning January 1, 2021, Colorado will become the latest state to call for the use of CARB-compliant catalytic converters."

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:02 am

Time to move out of the state. Bummer though. I’m sure all that bs is going to ooze nationwide.

Washington state (king county, Seattle) regs are slowly moving into Idaho in my industry. I’m sure emissions crap will also.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:26 am

jmurret wrote: "Your conversion is not legal."
That must have been a gut punch feeling. The front range is one of those places that traps pollutants and is experiencing rapid growth. They've been out of EPA compliance for years, but there has been recent pressure for that to change.

Wondering how difficult it would be to get it into compliance and schedule another inspection? I'm not very familiar with the conversion. Is there room for the second cat & evap system? Is the OBDII port still attached, or can it be?

<side rant> I've always thought that it's inefficient to have every driver test. I can remember reading that the majority of emissions originate from a small subset of poorly functioning vehicles. They already have emissions scanners set up on entrance ramps in the area and could use the same technology to focus on the worst offenders.</side rant>

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:29 am

Interesting

The KEP kit has only one CAT and I believe uses the existing Canister. Maybe if you got a hold of the KEP CAT that would help. I'm sure the canister could be addressed.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:33 am

designer wrote:
Washington state (king county, Seattle) regs are slowly moving into Idaho in my industry. I’m sure emissions crap will also.

if youre gonna go on the full fox news rant, at least use the right basic info

https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Air-quality/Vehicle-emissions/Emissions-check-ends

but, i suppose that negates the rant... so, nevermind, carry on!

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:45 am

brickster wrote: <side rant> I've always thought that it's inefficient to have every driver test. I can remember reading that the majority of emissions originate from a small subset of poorly functioning vehicles. </side rant>

Or, why not just test the vehicle on the rollers and be done with it? So long as the tailpipe emissions are within spec for the vehicle's pre-OBD model year, who the hell cares what engine and cat converter are in it? These state and federal EPA [bleep]s have their heads up their asses.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:50 am

kamzcab86 wrote: Or, why not just test the vehicle on the rollers and be done with it? So long as the tailpipe emissions are within spec for the vehicle's pre-OBD model year, who the hell cares what engine and cat converter are in it? These state and federal EPA [bleep]s have their heads up their asses.

While I agree that the tailpipe emissions is the most important outcome, I would guess the reason to be that any OBDII enabled vehicle has the potential to malfunction without all of the original components installed. Most importantly, OBDII FI systems are tuned specifically to the cat(s) properties and higher coolant temperatures than used in the past.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:00 pm

I'm surprised the inspector was sharp enough to notice it was not the original engine.

Bit confused. It sounds like you are not able to just repair the failed items CEL, Evap, CAT, Diagnosis port? That you need to have the converter apply for a certification as well?

If it is just a case of adding what's missing, that seems like a straightforward task. Good luck.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:03 pm

As far as the double cats concerned
Small Car has those available

https://smallcar.com/vanagon/subaru-vanagon-conver...-addition/

Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:28 pm

It’s not the end of the world, although it sucks your vehicle got flagged. You can do what a lot of people in az do and just throw on the factory emissions equipment in the most half ass way possible to get it compliant.

Depending on your engine mounts you may be able to mount up a stock legacy/Impreza subaru exhaust with factory cats and have it exit forwards the front of the van. It’ll hang low and look like ass but will work.

Also very surprised they even found the engine, Fyi for future emissions you might be able to convince them the engine is inaccessible. I didn’t know that was an option until I played dumb at az emissions and said I wasn’t sure how to get to the engine.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:46 pm

I have always had a lot of respect for the California Air Resources Board. They (and their forerunner) were almost solely responsible for cleaning up SoCal's huge vehicle-caused smog problem.

Having said that, CARB has become far too bureaucratic. The Golden State has so many vintage cars on the road since Cali basically has no rust problem. Cali and CARB should enable and support modern engine conversions on vintage cars, not make it harder to do such smart conversions that pollute less. I am happy that my SVX swap, with all emissions systems functioning properly, puts out less pollutants than the old 2.1 WBX engine did.

Up here in BC, our government went in the opposite direction to Colorado. In 2014, our emissions testing program, "Air Care", was terminated. The reasoning was that new vehicles were continuously becoming more eco-friendly, and the percentage of old cars on the road was decreasing. That may be so, but I have seen a lot of hot-rodders with very new cars tearing cats off these cars, going with open or nearly-open exhaust systems, and have had to breathe the fumes of these rigs - - not a picnic after decades of clean air here on our BC roads. The diesel crowd has also had a heyday and you see countless new or nearly-new pickups with re-mapped engines, no cats, and often, no mufflers, rolling coal at every stoplight. Really???

So, to you folks in Colorado, be careful what you wish for!! It is understandable that a jurisdiction that does not want to invest in the political wrangling and expensive emissions research would simply adopt legislation and regulations made by a large state like California. Here in Canada, some of our small provinces just copy legislation that the larger provinces have enacted, to avoid the expense of research, drafting, etc.

Colorado, however, can do better than Cali on the vintage vehicle emissions question. They should try.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:50 pm

OMG that's a bummer!

Have you looked at CO 5 year collectors plates? To get collectors plates your car must:
* Be model year at least thirty-two years old
* Have passed an emissions test in the last 12 months
* Be driven less than 4500 miles per year

Maybe this would be an option for you if your last passing E test was just last year, your van is really a 1990 that was first registered in 1991 (like if the VIN's seventh character is an "L"), you either really drive it less than 22500 miles every 5 years are unphased by this requirement, and if the CO department of revenue hasn't banned your renewal based on that test report.

Either way, I'm super-sorry to hear this. This has to suck for you now, and for all of us coming up. Please do keep this thread posted with how it works out for you...All the other CO peeps (myself included) are holding our breath.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:54 pm

kamzcab86 wrote: brickster wrote: <side rant> I've always thought that it's inefficient to have every driver test. I can remember reading that the majority of emissions originate from a small subset of poorly functioning vehicles. </side rant>

Or, why not just test the vehicle on the rollers and be done with it? So long as the tailpipe emissions are within spec for the vehicle's pre-OBD model year, who the hell cares what engine and cat converter are in it? These state and federal EPA [bleep]s have their heads up their asses.

This is my thought as well.
Who cares what is pushing the vehicle along.
The real issue is........
Does it make equal to or less than the vehicle model year specs?

If it does, it is a win win situation.

Dave

Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:01 pm

Why is an older Vanagon not grandfathered in, like a '68 Camaro? In fact, I presume the Subaru conversion is *cleaner* from an emissions standard than the OG WBX.

Is it possible to register it as a Collector's vehicle? Granted, some states place heavy usage restrictions on Collector's vehicles; but it may be worth looking into.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:15 pm

In New York a car 26 years old is exempt, safety inspection only.

It's the insurance that restricts usage.

Ask in the bay forum what they do.

Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:26 pm

California Gasoline-powered vehicle is a 1975 year model or older. Diesel-powered vehicle is a 1997 are exempt.