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Thu May 11, 2023 9:46 am

What about Fowler, any good?

Thanks in advance. :D

Thu May 11, 2023 10:21 am

The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thu May 11, 2023 10:30 am

Dusty1 wrote: The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thanks. :D

Interesting Fowler is junk, a lot of vintage tools by this brand. Also Central, though all that seeing are rusty.

Thu May 11, 2023 10:37 am

Adriel Rowley wrote: Dusty1 wrote: The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thanks. :D

Interesting Fowler is junk, a lot of vintage tools by this brand. Also Central, though all that seeing are rusty.

Older Folwer stuff is just fine, and will work for what you need building an engine.

You don't need to pay inflated Starret prices to measure imported parts.

Brian

Thu May 11, 2023 10:50 am

My Fowler 6” mechanical stainless steel micrometer is as accurate as my buddy’s Starrett. I wouldn’t consider it junk, either. It is very smooth in operation. I don’t use it day in and day out like a professional machinist so can’t say anything about how it would wear over time. It should be fine for the hobbyist like me without having to spend bigger bucks. Mine is made stateside which is also a plus as far as I’m concerned.

Thu May 11, 2023 10:56 am

Brian_e wrote: Adriel Rowley wrote: Dusty1 wrote: The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thanks. :D

Interesting Fowler is junk, a lot of vintage tools by this brand. Also Central, though all that seeing are rusty.

Older Folwer stuff is just fine, and will work for what you need building an engine.

You don't need to pay inflated Starret prices to measure imported parts.

Brian

Well said.
Even "most" newer Fowler in the realm of micrometers (not digital calipers) will be just fine for limited use. If it was going to be a professional tool....measuring many times a day f9r years, the cheaper versions of newer tools made in Asia will start getting sloppy from wear quick.

If it's the fowler dial bore gauge you are looking at versus the no name one in the orange box.....etc the cheapest one that comes with the highest resolution dial gauge.....as the fowler is made in the same factory in China.

For the record.....Starrett is the gold standard for many hand measuring tools. However there are certain tools in certain categories that Mitutoyo makes that are actually better. Ray

Thu May 11, 2023 11:14 am

Adriel Rowley wrote: Dusty1 wrote: The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thanks. :D

Interesting Fowler is junk, a lot of vintage tools by this brand. Also Central, though all that seeing are rusty.

:?

Nobody here said anything of the sort… not sure why Dusty1’ response to you comment led you conclude Fowler is junk…

Fowler has an enormous range of metrology equipment. Everything from cheap import products, all the way to top of the line CMM equipment, etc. they also partner with some other companies to co-develop products specific to them. For example, they have a line of sweet Bower hole gauges, Sylvac micrometers, etc… You just have to know what you are getting.

I have quite a few Fowler products, and they are good… but I also didn’t buy their cheapest products either. I haven’t had any issues, and most importantly, they are repeatable! Repeatability is the name of the game. If you have a standard to check against, repeatability can be transfered to accuracy.

The good thing about Fowler, is they have great support, like Mitutoyo and Starret. So, even for the lower end products, a little extra $ over the no name equivalent is worth it.

What ever gauges you get, you need standards to check against. Standard bars for a micrometer are a 100% must. A bore gauge is super nice to use with gauge blocks and a setting master, but if you are skilled, you can get nearly as good of measurements by using a micrometer to set a bore gauge. It is a little more fiddly to get right because you have to set it dead nuts straight between the anvils, but it works.

Thu May 11, 2023 11:21 am

Brian_e wrote: Adriel Rowley wrote: Dusty1 wrote: The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thanks. :D

Interesting Fowler is junk, a lot of vintage tools by this brand. Also Central, though all that seeing are rusty.

Older Folwer stuff is just fine, and will work for what you need building an engine.

You don't need to pay inflated Starret prices to measure imported parts.

Brian

Brian, appreciate the help. :D

So how does one tell if vintage? :-k

Thu May 11, 2023 11:29 am

Vanapplebomb wrote: Adriel Rowley wrote: Dusty1 wrote: The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thanks. :D

Interesting Fowler is junk, a lot of vintage tools by this brand. Also Central, though all that seeing are rusty.

:?

Nobody here said anything of the sort… not sure why Dusty1’ response to you comment led you conclude Fowler is junk…

Took the list to be all there is, rather then a partial.

Vanapplebomb wrote: Fowler has an enormous range of metrology equipment. Everything from cheap import products, all the way to top of the line CMM equipment, etc. they also partner with some other companies to co-develop products specific to them. For example, they have a line of sweet Bower hole gauges, Sylvac micrometers, etc… You just have to know what you are getting.

I have quite a few Fowler products, and they are good… but I also didn’t buy their cheapest products either. I haven’t had any issues, and most importantly, they are repeatable! Repeatability is the name of the game. If you have a standard to check against, repeatability can be transfered to accuracy.

So when buying, especially used, how does one know if getting a useable product?

Yes, repeatability is a must. My digital caliper is inaccurate though so far shown repeatability. At least one of my science teachers back in High School ingrained this in my brain, was even on the midterm or final.

Vanapplebomb wrote: The good thing about Fowler, is they have great support, like Mitutoyo and Starret. So, even for the lower end products, a little extra $ over the no name equivalent is worth it.

Even without proof of purchase? Wright Tools is this way, didn't ask, just sent a replacement out same day and arrived in a couple.

Vanapplebomb wrote: What ever gauges you get, you need standards to check against. Standard bars for a micrometer are a 100% must. A bore gauge is super nice to use with gauge blocks and a setting master, but if you are skilled, you can get nearly as good of measurements by using a micrometer to set a bore gauge. It is a little more fiddly to get right because you have to set it dead nuts straight between the anvils, but it works.

Yes, almost forgot about the standard.

Interesting using another gauge to set accuracy, since don't have a standard, used one caliper to check another, of course in the range I was measuring.

Thu May 11, 2023 12:21 pm

Somehow getting mixed up on the posts, hopefully don't miss anymore...

boxkiteflyer wrote: My Fowler 6” mechanical stainless steel micrometer is as accurate as my buddy’s Starrett. I wouldn’t consider it junk, either. It is very smooth in operation. I don’t use it day in and day out like a professional machinist so can’t say anything about how it would wear over time. It should be fine for the hobbyist like me without having to spend bigger bucks. Mine is made stateside which is also a plus as far as I’m concerned.

Interesting, appreciate you sharing. Guess at least part of the additional cost is the name. :-k

Exactly, good enough for occasional work is all we need.

Thu May 11, 2023 12:29 pm

raygreenwood wrote: Brian_e wrote: Adriel Rowley wrote: Dusty1 wrote: The gold Standard is Starrett.

Also:

Brown & Sharpe

Mitutoyo

.
.

Thanks. :D

Interesting Fowler is junk, a lot of vintage tools by this brand. Also Central, though all that seeing are rusty.

Older Folwer stuff is just fine, and will work for what you need building an engine.

You don't need to pay inflated Starret prices to measure imported parts.

Brian

Well said.
Even "most" newer Fowler in the realm of micrometers (not digital calipers) will be just fine for limited use. If it was going to be a professional tool....measuring many times a day f9r years, the cheaper versions of newer tools made in Asia will start getting sloppy from wear quick.

If it's the fowler dial bore gauge you are looking at versus the no name one in the orange box.....etc the cheapest one that comes with the highest resolution dial gauge.....as the fowler is made in the same factory in China.

For the record.....Starrett is the gold standard for many hand measuring tools. However there are certain tools in certain categories that Mitutoyo makes that are actually better. Ray

Ray, this has to be one of the shortest posts you ever done. :P (Teasing you, mine also can run a little long.)

Not seeing a country of origin, be surprised if China, based on an understanding factories started moving over there about 30 years ago. You see one?

As for Mitutoyo, there is this.

Let me make clear both are eBay listings, not something owned myself.

Thu May 11, 2023 12:30 pm

I have built about 10-12 engines with my Fowler Dial Bore Gauge and none of them have exploded. In almost every case my Fowler alerted me to something that could have easily caused a failure either immediately or in the near future. I then repaired or re-fitted whatever offending component it was, and have not had any engine failures.

Do I miss my Sunnen accurate to half a ten-thousanth? Yep. But thieves, they be stealin'. You know how that goes. :evil: I've gotten along allright with my Fowler. It's a crappier new one too, not a nicer vintage one.

Thu May 11, 2023 12:52 pm

Brian_e wrote: You don't need to pay inflated Starret prices to measure imported parts.

There is an annual small engine show in Athol right around the corner from Starrett. Sometimes the old timers show up and sell their old Starrett stuff for way less than they paid for it back when they worked at Starrett.

Starrett used to have a "factory outlet store" on site. They sold quite a bit of inventory to a guy who re- sold it at New England swap meets.

Starrett micrometers show up all the time at yard sales in New England.

Even better...

A while ago there was a Starrett 1" micrometer in its original box daintily perched on top of the junk in the scrap metal container at the local transfer station. I said,

"Hello, Beautiful! You're comin' home with me!"

It's in the drawer in my Gerstner chest with its American made buddies. :D

.
.

Thu May 11, 2023 12:56 pm

I have a small collection of machinist measuring tools. I am NOT a machinist, weird right. All the names mentioned and more I own. I also have quality standards. I like vintage E-Bay in wood case or clam shell vinyl or leather or bakelite do it for me. I like the feel of Starrett mics but I like Federal dial indicators. Central is another brand that is good quality. Not much can go bad with a mechanical gauge. unless the screw is stripped or missing a chunk of thread.

Thu May 11, 2023 1:25 pm

For the vintage medium quality I like Phase II, SPI, Smiec

Buying used is a gamble, 50percent of being good at half the price, but that's still better value than new sometimes because not all new tools prove good.

Checking one caliper against another is confusing, but checking your dial caliper against something of 10x greater accuracy close to the size you are measuring you can double the accuracy of the calipers at that size.
I do that often.

Thu May 11, 2023 2:12 pm

The thing to know with the Fowler bore gauge, is that the spring is strong enough to scratch your bearings if you aren't careful. Take the stalk apart, and you will find it has two springs inside. I removed one, and the unit runs much softer now, though is still accurate.
I have a full set of Mitutoyo metric combimikes, that I won on eBay. They've been a pleasure to use.
https://www.grainger.com/product/6NPZ8?gucid=N:N:P...lsrc=aw.ds

Thu May 11, 2023 6:24 pm

jimmyhoffa wrote: I have built about 10-12 engines with my Fowler Dial Bore Gauge and none of them have exploded. In almost every case my Fowler alerted me to something that could have easily caused a failure either immediately or in the near future. I then repaired or re-fitted whatever offending component it was, and have not had any engine failures.

Appreciate the information. :D

jimmyhoffa wrote: Do I miss my Sunnen accurate to half a ten-thousanth? Yep. But thieves, they be stealin'. You know how that goes. :evil: I've gotten along allright with my Fowler. It's a crappier new one too, not a nicer vintage one.

Sadly I do. The first tool I ever bought was a 1/2 inch socket set when 13 years old, stolen along with my 3/8 inch set, and a tap and die set. However, didn't have any of Opa's tools over there, so could have been worse. Guess saying understand the feeling.

Thu May 11, 2023 6:35 pm

Dusty1 wrote: Brian_e wrote: You don't need to pay inflated Starret prices to measure imported parts.

There is an annual small engine show in Athol right around the corner from Starrett. Sometimes the old timers show up and sell their old Starrett stuff for way less than they paid for it back when they worked at Starrett.

Starrett used to have a "factory outlet store" on site. They sold quite a bit of inventory to a guy who re- sold it at New England swap meets.

Starrett micrometers show up all the time at yard sales in New England.

Even better...

A while ago there was a Starrett 1" micrometer in its original box daintily perched on top of the junk in the scrap metal container at the local transfer station. I said,

"Hello, Beautiful! You're comin' home with me!"

It's in the drawer in my Gerstner chest with its American made buddies. :D

.
.

Well, if I was in New England be broke buying Starretts. :lol:

Sure fortunate to find one in a scrap metal pile. Congratulations.

Amazing folks throw away, just in the year lived here, got an Ikea cart really being wanting for the work room with sewing and tailoring supplies needed at arms length, plus an extra large dog carrier. Cart needs wheels, supposedly free replacements coming, and carrier needed hardware that was under $10 shipped (these carriers cost over $100 new).

Thu May 11, 2023 6:42 pm

bsairhead wrote: I have a small collection of machinist measuring tools. I am NOT a machinist, weird right. All the names mentioned and more I own. I also have quality standards. I like vintage E-Bay in wood case or clam shell vinyl or leather or bakelite do it for me. I like the feel of Starrett mics but I like Federal dial indicators. Central is another brand that is good quality. Not much can go bad with a mechanical gauge. unless the screw is stripped or missing a chunk of thread.

Tools are fun to collect, trouble is when fill a rolling tool box and don't have room for another, can be a problem. :lol:

Thu May 11, 2023 6:46 pm

modok wrote: For the vintage medium quality I like Phase II, SPI, Smiec

Appreciate knowing. :D Saw Phase II and passed based on the name.

modok wrote: Buying used is a gamble, 50percent of being good at half the price, but that's still better value than new sometimes because not all new tools prove good.

If an eBay item is not as described, once know how to go through the claim process, eBay will refund. If damaged in shipping, I usually file with Visa as eBay will do nothing and usually the shipper will not either, don't care as have their money.

modok wrote: Checking one caliper against another is confusing, but checking your dial caliper against something of 10x greater accuracy close to the size you are measuring you can double the accuracy of the calipers at that size.
I do that often.

It was not for me, though only checking to see if accurate, rather then know how accurate with 20 significant figures. :wink: