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Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:31 pm

ALLWAGONS wrote: I was at a council meeting for an adjacent city to the fires. the council people stated that people who are receiving fund from go fme , might be denied as FEMA cannot duplicate benefits. I am speaking about the middle class people in Altadena, I don’t know any rich folk in the Palisades. I stated earlier, I am not donating one penny, I already pay an higher tax bracket than Bill Mahler.
I do like the idea of private charity taking over from FEMA, that is how it should be done. Americans are generally charitable, and charity is not taking taxes to give to others, charity is gifts given by free will.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:51 am

Moderator again:
Please stay on the topic of the fire and don't derail it into other money or political topics.

Some posts were shortened to remove that content rather than delete them outright.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:16 am

We are all paying for the natural disasters that have happened and will be paying for them in the future be it insurance, taxes or personal donations.

Interesting article.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/22/homes/la-fires-homeowners-insurance/index.html

This is the paragraph that stands out to me;

"In states where regulators apply less scrutiny, insurers are able to charge whatever they want,” said Balber. “If regulations were stronger across the country, we’d all have lower rates.”
Schneyer said some shifting of costs and risks is inevitable for large, national insurers, which benefit from customers facing different perils in different geographies. Asked about what he would say to someone in the Midwest paying more for hurricane risks along the Gulf and East Coasts, and fire risks in the West, he said that “they should hope if they need a new home because their home is destroyed by a tornado, or need a new roof that is damaged by large hail, their insurer would pay for that.”
“That’s risk-sharing. That’s how risk works in the insurance industry,” he added.

Not everyone is so fortunate to chose where they live.
They way I see it is we are all in this together whether you like it or not.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:59 am

Restrictions on insurance premiums have caused many insurers to cancel policies or causes insurers to not have to money to cover losses.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:25 am

zerotofifty wrote: Restrictions on insurance premiums have caused many insurers to cancel policies or causes insurers to not have to money to cover losses.

Yep....huge problem.

Its kind of like the issue of rent controleld housing in New York City and a few other places. The state puts an artificial cap on a variable real world cost of service and if it becomes unaffordable for those offering the service....they quit offering it.

With what replacement/rebuilding costs are in California...its almost like some houses need to be insured by a deep pockets entity like loyds of london.

The current stats from Cal Fire:

Quote: Roughly 40,500 acres, much of which is made up of the acres scorched in the Palisades Fire (23,713) and the Eaton Fire (14,021), according to Cal Fire.

Where Do The Fires Rank Among California’s Most Destructive Fires?

Quote: If the Palisades and Eaton fires do not increase in acreage, they will rank as the No. 4 and No. 2 most destructive wildfires in the history of California, according to Cal Fire. The largest wildfire in state history is the Camp Fire, which exploded in northern California in 2018, burned 153,336 acres and killed 85 people. According to cal Fire and Forbes.

Quote: The Camp Fire was sparked by a faulty Pacific Gas and Electric transmission line and raged through Northern California's Butte County. It ultimately destroyed 18,000 buildings, including more than 14,000 homes.

Thats interesting. I did not think that the Camp fire destroyed that many actual "HOMES".

The bigger problem with these current fires...I think...is that entire neighborhoods and all of their support buildings (schooles, stores, businesses etc.) were taken out.

Ray

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:55 am

Yes, and California factions are already lined up to re-engineer what gets built to suit their utopian visions.

On the one hand it is not feasible to rebuild what was there. Current building codes would not allow that. Fair enough.

But there are folks that will seek to make it mixed use, multi-story, identity-balanced, and as a result fabulously more expensive and time-consuming that it need be.

To me, the only proper re-engineering in the Palisades is to embed a second, salt-water hydrant system with standby generators and pumps in fire-proof enclosed substations. This is part of a workable "never again" solution. Since it is now a clean sheet, this would cost very little as compared to a retrofit project.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:23 pm

KTPhil wrote: Yes, and California factions are already lined up to re-engineer what gets built to suit their utopian visions.

On the one hand it is not feasible to rebuild what was there. Current building codes would not allow that. Fair enough.

But there are folks that will seek to make it mixed use, multi-story, identity-balanced, and as a result fabulously more expensive and time-consuming that it need be.

To me, the only proper re-engineering in the Palisades is to embed a second, salt-water hydrant system with standby generators and pumps in fire-proof enclosed substations. This is part of a workable "never again" solution. Since it is now a clean sheet, this would cost very little as compared to a retrofit project.

They could have retrofitted a sea water hydrant system very easily and inexpensively prior to the fires, but incompetence in government prevented that. Heck if only the reservoir had not been left empty for 11 months for a ripped cover, if only the water department had told the fire dept about this
(and to think the water dept chief is paid $750,000 per year salary!!!) beforehand steps could have been taken to reduce the fire risk. If only.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:29 pm

KTPhil wrote: Yes, and California factions are already lined up to re-engineer what gets built to suit their utopian visions.

On the one hand it is not feasible to rebuild what was there. Current building codes would not allow that. Fair enough.

But there are folks that will seek to make it mixed use, multi-story, identity-balanced, and as a result fabulously more expensive and time-consuming that it need be.

To me, the only proper re-engineering in the Palisades is to embed a second, salt-water hydrant system with standby generators and pumps in fire-proof enclosed substations. This is part of a workable "never again" solution. Since it is now a clean sheet, this would cost very little as compared to a retrofit project.

Technically....I agree on the salt water "back up" system. It would need a huge main and large series of pumping stations. But in the cost scheme of things it's really not that much. It's not a seperate system.. it would feed the existing freshwater main system. It stays valved off, gets tested quarterly.

Yes, it would contaminate the mains but that is just a short term "boil water" issue while they purge the mains. What is purged....along with what hits tue streets during rains should go t9 some new downstream reservoirs.

Ray

Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:30 pm

KTPhil wrote: Yes, and California factions are already lined up to re-engineer what gets built to suit their utopian visions.

On the one hand it is not feasible to rebuild what was there. Current building codes would not allow that. Fair enough.

But there are folks that will seek to make it mixed use, multi-story, identity-balanced, and as a result fabulously more expensive and time-consuming that it need be.

To me, the only proper re-engineering in the Palisades is to embed a second, salt-water hydrant system with standby generators and pumps in fire-proof enclosed substations. This is part of a workable "never again" solution. Since it is now a clean sheet, this would cost very little as compared to a retrofit project.

stop talking all the common sense.

I agree with Ray that it could be made to feed into the main water lines, but I wouldn't do it. Better to have some redundancy and keep the systems separate, therefore these is no b/s down the line with cross contamination

Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:43 pm

Interesting the empathy and support Lahaina got with alleged mis management of vegetation vs So California.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=783559&highlight=lahaina

I wonder if this is in LA’s future. How many other Hawaiian Island and mainland residents think their tax dollars should not go towards Maui. Or would that go against the spirit of Aloha?

“ Cost Of 450 Temporary Homes For Maui Wildfire Victims: $411,000 Each“

https://apple.news/A4n90Me4uQT6DW7f6N91AUQ

Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:53 pm

Xevin wrote: Interesting the empathy and support Lahaina got with alleged mis management of vegetation vs So California.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=783559&highlight=lahaina

I wonder if this is in LA’s future. How many other Hawaiian Island and mainland residents think their tax dollars should not go towards Maui. Or would that go against the spirit of Aloha?

“ Cost Of 450 Temporary Homes For Maui Wildfire Victims: $411,000 Each“

https://apple.news/A4n90Me4uQT6DW7f6N91AUQ

Taking taxes from people to spend on others is not empathy, nor aloha.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:01 pm

Xevin wrote:

“ Cost Of 450 Temporary Homes For Maui Wildfire Victims: $411,000 Each“

https://apple.news/A4n90Me4uQT6DW7f6N91AUQ

That is the interesting part to me. That cost.

I have been watching a YouTube channel for a few months with a guy who reviews and sometimes trials.....what many would call "tiny houses".

First, they are not all tiny. Some of the more interesting ones are modular and can be instantly joined, plug and play style into a longer home, a Tee shaped of H shaped home, L shaped or C shaped.

While for the most part the really nicest ones are right at $100k depending on design and how it's outfitted....but many are in the $50k to $80k range.

These generally have modular HVAC, tankless hot water, can be all electric or all gas or mixed.

The key is that many are very well built of modern materials, can all but put on a truck and jacked right down onto a slab.

In fact, I have seen some of these that use a ring or base of all welded water pipe like a work site sled.

Instead of the trailers, FEMA could field modular houses that can be trucked, helicopter lifted etc. They are nicer. They can be kept and paid off if the recipients deem that they are good enough and they can meet codes and be easily permanent.

A good design, a good specification and a long term build contract for one or two designs....there is no reason cost could not be kept to $40-$50k installed....maybe minus some transport and prep in some places.

I will dig up the link to the site. Some may find it interesting. Ray

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:16 pm

Xevin wrote: Interesting the empathy and support Lahaina got with alleged mis management of vegetation vs So California.

difference is HI isn't trying to shove an agenda up everyone's ass and hasn't blown billions on absurd shit that did nothing good for the common person

Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:33 pm

raygreenwood wrote: Xevin wrote:

“ Cost Of 450 Temporary Homes For Maui Wildfire Victims: $411,000 Each“

https://apple.news/A4n90Me4uQT6DW7f6N91AUQ

That is the interesting part to me. That cost.

I have been watching a YouTube channel for a few months with a guy who reviews and sometimes trials.....what many would call "tiny houses".

First, they are not all tiny. Some of the more interesting ones are modular and can be instantly joined, plug and play style into a longer home, a Tee shaped of H shaped home, L shaped or C shaped.

While for the most part the really nicest ones are right at $100k depending on design and how it's outfitted....but many are in the $50k to $80k range.

These generally have modular HVAC, tankless hot water, can be all electric or all gas or mixed.

The key is that many are very well built of modern materials, can all but put on a truck and jacked right down onto a slab.

In fact, I have seen some of these that use a ring or base of all welded water pipe like a work site sled.

Instead of the trailers, FEMA could field modular houses that can be trucked, helicopter lifted etc. They are nicer. They can be kept and paid off if the recipients deem that they are good enough and they can meet codes and be easily permanent.

A good design, a good specification and a long term build contract for one or two designs....there is no reason cost could not be kept to $40-$50k installed....maybe minus some transport and prep in some places.

I will dig up the link to the site. Some may find it interesting. Ray

Anyone truly in need of temporary shelter, like those in Lahaina, NC, or LA, would gladly live in a Conex box. Those have already been engineered to be easily moved, placed, stacked.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:23 pm

TDCTDI wrote:

Anyone truly in need of temporary shelter, like those in Lahaina, NC, or LA, would gladly live in a Conex box. Those have already been engineered to be easily moved, placed, stacked.

Yup
https://www.relevantbuildings.com/adu-builder-portland-oregon/

Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:29 pm

Xevin wrote: TDCTDI wrote:

Anyone truly in need of temporary shelter, like those in Lahaina, NC, or LA, would gladly live in a Conex box. Those have already been engineered to be easily moved, placed, stacked.

Yup
https://www.relevantbuildings.com/adu-builder-portland-oregon/

That pricing is insane.

Those are far more extravagant than needed for a true emergency housing, I’m talking drag the shipping container to the site & drop it & let the people figure out how to finish/furnish it. While primitive, it’s far better than a fucking tent.

These Conex boxes can be had for $2,000-$6,000, & sure, they would be a blight at best, but these people need shelter.

But if NC won’t allow the Amish donated “tiny homes” to be placed, California sure as hell wouldn’t.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:47 pm

Moderator time:
No religious posts please

Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:07 pm

The key to fast recovery is to allow immediate reconstruction. Waive the lengthy permit and permission process, reduce costs by waiving some of the new building codes. Those that wish to rebuild should be allowed to start once the fire is out, no delays.

owners may band together to hire contractors and buy materials in bulk, thus reducing cost and speeding construction.

remove roadblocks to recovery.

Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:25 pm

TDCTDI wrote: Xevin wrote: TDCTDI wrote:

Anyone truly in need of temporary shelter, like those in Lahaina, NC, or LA, would gladly live in a Conex box. Those have already been engineered to be easily moved, placed, stacked.

Yup
https://www.relevantbuildings.com/adu-builder-portland-oregon/

That pricing is insane.

Those are far more extravagant than needed for a true emergency housing, I’m talking drag the shipping container to the site & drop it & let the people figure out how to finish/furnish it. While primitive, it’s far better than a fucking tent.

These Conex boxes can be had for $2,000-$6,000, & sure, they would be a blight at best, but these people need shelter.

But if NC won’t allow the Amish donated “tiny homes” to be placed, California sure as hell wouldn’t.

:wink:

Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:39 pm

TDCTDI wrote: raygreenwood wrote: Xevin wrote:

“ Cost Of 450 Temporary Homes For Maui Wildfire Victims: $411,000 Each“

https://apple.news/A4n90Me4uQT6DW7f6N91AUQ

That is the interesting part to me. That cost.

I have been watching a YouTube channel for a few months with a guy who reviews and sometimes trials.....what many would call "tiny houses".

First, they are not all tiny. Some of the more interesting ones are modular and can be instantly joined, plug and play style into a longer home, a Tee shaped of H shaped home, L shaped or C shaped.

While for the most part the really nicest ones are right at $100k depending on design and how it's outfitted....but many are in the $50k to $80k range.

These generally have modular HVAC, tankless hot water, can be all electric or all gas or mixed.

The key is that many are very well built of modern materials, can all but put on a truck and jacked right down onto a slab.

In fact, I have seen some of these that use a ring or base of all welded water pipe like a work site sled.

Instead of the trailers, FEMA could field modular houses that can be trucked, helicopter lifted etc. They are nicer. They can be kept and paid off if the recipients deem that they are good enough and they can meet codes and be easily permanent.

A good design, a good specification and a long term build contract for one or two designs....there is no reason cost could not be kept to $40-$50k installed....maybe minus some transport and prep in some places.

I will dig up the link to the site. Some may find it interesting. Ray

Anyone truly in need of temporary shelter, like those in Lahaina, NC, or LA, would gladly live in a Conex box. Those have already been engineered to be easily moved, placed, stacked.

Very true...and there are some very nice "container" homes....but none of these I am speaking of are container homes. They are much nicer and largely the same price.

While this guy does some "tiny" homes and some contaner home reviews....his whole thing is "pre-fab" homes which can range from cheap to luxury that are up well into the 6 digits.

This video is this guys top 10 for 2024. I am posting the link just so you can kind of get a feel for the HUGE range of pre-fab homes. There are a few in this list at The $120k range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWgc_FCyPz8

I like this video because he acknowledges that some of what he reviews are a bit pricey. He talks about price, sighting, placement etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWMe6O8ZmT0

There are tons of options these days and even kit options that with the right materials could help a lot of people who could not afford a home otherwise.

Ray