Subaru aftermarket ecu (sorry devesvws)

[kayakmaster]

I can get a good deal on a test motor ( less than 100 miles on it ) 2.5 Subaru legacy motor, 2005 or newer, from a company that specializes in off road racing. Problem is that they use an aftermaket ecu that works for all applications race and street. Small car recommends against it because of the "unknown" issues that could be created, and I am trying to so this myself in the first place, and would have very little support within the community because of a lack of familliarity with the unit. My friend whose is truely very bright and will help me install the motor (although he is not a mechanic) says to go for the test motor and we will figure out any issues that come along. The guy from the off road place also is very confident that we will make this work, and in his aftermarket ecu, and says that the trouble codes that appear in subaru's ecu won't even exist in his system and I am already set up with oil press, oil temp, cylinder head temp and volt guages provided I can get sender units for the suby motor.

Should I go against small car recommendation and possibly screw myself big-time, or should I assume given patience and time my friend and I will get this thing purring, with a referrence ( mentioned but I wouldn't want to quote him) of about 190 hp with this aftermaket ecu

Finally, what small car is asking me to find is not really very practical unless I find and older car, with an older engine than I would want and buy that donar car outright. That bright near new crash test motor is there, ready for me to puchase, although the issue of wheather or not that motor uses the subaru fuel injection won't be addressed until monday morning.
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Jack

'87 GL Syncro (conversion)

[devesvws]

dont be subaru in the post works for me

[rs4-380]

the real catch is going to be how comfortable are you with troubleshooting any engine management problems (including wiring) that may come down the road. Because it will be EASIER to install initially, but if you ever need troubleshooting or general support, you will have virtually no community or dealer support. Not that many people take their subaru vans into subaru dealers for servicing, but at least any competent subaru mechanic should be able to diagnose common issues, this may not be the case with an aftermarket ecu.

If you are comfortable with diagnosing issues yourself, and getting your hands dirty (a good place to start is doing the swap yourself), then it shouldn't be any problem.

I run an aftermarket (standalone) ecu in my 16v rabbit, and while I know that I can never take it to a mechanic, because all the extra crap has been stripped out of the ecu, and all it really does is control fuel and spark, it's MUCH more reliable and problems (if they ever pop up) are pretty easily diagnosed.
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Dave
87 EJ25 Syncro GL

[wcdennis]

Most after market ECUs have to be tuned before they will work properly. This requires some fairly sophisticated tweaking with a laptop and a special oxygen sensor. This unit you are buying may be preset for a sand rail, but how is it going to work in a heavy Vanagon? The stock Subaru electronics are very reliable and you can find them cheap if you look around.

[ChesterKV]

[rs4-380]

[ChesterKV]

[rs4-380]

[ChesterKV]

[rs4-380]

yep, didn't notice that, he's screwed if he's in cali.
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Dave
87 EJ25 Syncro GL

[ChesterKV]

[kayakmaster]

I beleive I will be ok with smog, without going into much detail, this will never see a bar referee or a smog check station. I also believe that the engine and ecu vendor will help me find the adequate tune for street /economy. also consider with my opening statement this motor can be pretty free flowing if I choose to go that route. the system is called ems and can be check out at fuel-injection.com. if rs4-380 or anyone else wants to give the site a glance, I would appreciate it.
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Jack

'87 GL Syncro (conversion)

[Christopher Schimke]

First off, I put very, very little stock in SmallCar's advice. I've been steered wrong and stomped on too many times.

Before you decide on going either route, talk to the company that would be providing the aftermarket ECU. Ask them if it is a complete plug and play system, meaning that the wiring harness comes completely ready to install and if the ECU comes with at least a base map to get he thing started and running half way decent right off the bat.

Second, ask them about the tuning aspect of the ECU and how much time they expect a novice to get the hang of simply accessing the various readouts for the various sensors via a laptop. Have them give you the baselines for each sensor so that you know what you are looking at. This will at least let YOU take a look at what is going on in the system. I would even go so far as to ask them to show you the extreme basics of tuning the ECU before you make a purchase. Of course this means that you will have to pay them a personal visit.

One other thing that I would consult them on is the wiring harness itself. Assuming that it is a plug and play type set-up, is the harness long enough to allow you to position the ECU where you want/need it? Is the wiring to the MAF sensor in roughly the stock location allowing you to use the stock Subaru intake tract or will you have to custom make a intake tract or extend the wiring to fit the factory loation? Where is the oxygen sensor intended to be located in their system? Will their wiring to the oxygen sensor allow you to use an exhaust system that will work in a Vanagon or will you have extend the wiring to match the oxygen sensor location on your chosen exhaust system?

One thing that I would DEFINATELY plan on doing after installation of this type of system is paying a trusted (have the engine/ECU supplier to give you recommendations) Subaru tuner to put the van on a dyno and set up the ECU to run in the most effiecient manor for the van. This WILL cost you some money but if you go this aftermarket ECU route, it WILL be worth it.

See, these are some of the hoops that you will more than likely have to jump through if you go the aftermarket ECU route. But to be honest, I feel it is worth it in the end. You will end up with a system that can be tuned exactly to what the engine needs, exctracting more horespower and torque from the engine and maybe even ending up getting better mileage than the stock system.

Even though this is your first conversion, if the aftermarket ECU comes with a good basemap that will at least allow you to drive the vehicle without damaging anything and all of the little details (as described above) fall into place without too much headache, the overall conversion will not be that much different than a standard conversion and the result can be much better in my opinion.
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[PIRATE]

are you getting the test motor from the guys down at wide open. they put those motors in there off road buggys. my buddy works for them. he said that the ecus are really basic. but like every one else is saying I would just get your swap done. then play with some ecu stuff after van is back on the road. Is that ej25 test motor carb certified in CA. I called up smallcar asking them what years the ej25 engines are carb certified and they told me to ask my local smog guy. terrible business they should know this crap if they sell to people in CA. any way I was basically just posting if you were talking about the motors WIde Open gets.

[dobryan]

You might want to also ask this question on the yahoo subaruvanagon listserve as they also have many CA members with experience.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[a914622]

Im running the ems (stinger 4) on my vanagon with the 2002 2.5 suby. It can be tuned to run as clean as you want. If you have a laptop you can do a data colection and let the system tune itself. ( set the A/F ratio you want) the idle is a little ruff.The guys at metric motors know both subaru and the ems.
AS FARE as small car goes, They did the frist factory wireharness for me.CRAP CRAP CRAP!!! The harness going to the fuel pump cought fire on the first fire up, but ofcorse it wasnt there falt. It fryed the o2 sensers.and back fed power to the injectors. Not not a big fan of how problems are treated at small car.I would not put any stock in small car!
If the EMS does not work for you you can allways put an early 2.2 stock system on. The intake bolts right on.

[ChesterKV]

[kayakmaster]

How bitchin is that, The internet is a wonderful tool, as is this website. I'm very nervous about trying this aftermarket system that not too many people are familiar with. And sure enough I get a response from somebody using it and telling me it works great, I just pm'd him. With any luck I will hear good things about some of my concerns ( like will the tachometer still work, how does the system handle altitude, etc). Anyway I feel that I take more than I give to this forum, partly because anything I know about is usually already answered before I see the post.
I will try to be more of a contributing member as I have accomplished some pretty neat modifications to my van.

Thanks all
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Jack

'87 GL Syncro (conversion)

[a914622]

I just wanted to post an update. Im no longer running the Stinger 4 on my Vanagon. The lack of a knock sensor was causing hard knocking under up hills and high altitude acceleration. I thing Metric motors has a street tune that may be more suited for a lighter car.

I plan on using the stinger in the 914 with a 2.5.


jcl
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87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru

[MarkWard]

We use the Electromotive TEC GT in our race cars. As stated above it can be tuned for any requirement. Did I miss the post, what brand of Engine management is included with the Test Engine? Most aftermarket Engine Management systems utilize similar configurations. The software look will vary from brand to brand, but you will be adjusting the same things.

For some, the impression is programmable engine management is "easy". There is a learning curve and if you don't know what you are doing, can damage a good engine. Too lean, too much timing too rich etc. If you intend to move forward with this system and be the tuner, you should get a hold of the software, install it on your computer and see how it feels. If it all looks like greek to you, then there will be a learning curve. Electromotive still uses a serial cable to connect to the ECU. I believe the other systems do as well. Most modern day laptops do not come with a serial port. You will need some sort of adapter then to go from serial to usb. These adapters unless they have been improved are finicky.

In the end, you will need to be the expert if you intend to travel in your vanagon. You will have to understand how it is wired as well. Good luck with you project. Regards mark