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vweater1
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2004
Posts: 349
Location: LakeView Terrace, California
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 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject: convert to pop outs |
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| How hard would it be to convert regular rear windows to pop outs. I would like to do it. What would I need besides the windows, latches, and seals. Can anyone tell me what the process is and how difficult. Would like to do by this weekend. |
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Mr. Bubblehead
El Chupa Nibre
Joined: October 25, 2002
Posts: 2756
Location: 612 Wharf Avenue
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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What kind of T3 do you have?
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OGST
Samba Member #4862 |
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GjMan
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2004
Posts: 834
Location: Grand Junction, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I've done this and it's fairly simple--assuming you can do basic metal work. Just cut out the window mounting area from the B pillar of a popout window donor car and weld it into the pillar of the car you wish to upgrade. Then you need to drill holes to mount the latch mechanism at the rear of the window. |
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Mr. Bubblehead
El Chupa Nibre
Joined: October 25, 2002
Posts: 2756
Location: 612 Wharf Avenue
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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If it's for a square I've got a lot of popout windows and hardware here I'd love to get rid of. Lemme know what you need.
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OGST
Samba Member #4862 |
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TheDDB
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2003
Posts: 752
Location: Type 3 Central - Portland OR -
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| GjMan wrote: |
| I've done this and it's fairly simple--assuming you can do basic metal work. Just cut out the window mounting area from the B pillar of a popout window donor car and weld it into the pillar of the car you wish to upgrade. Then you need to drill holes to mount the latch mechanism at the rear of the window. |
This is key you must have the new piller grafted in.
You car will have incomplete slots already but the windows will not stay in.
If you need the "b" pillers with the pop=out slots we have them here.
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Martin Magnia
Home of the only bolt on type 3 air ride kit
http://www.theDDB.com
Its a type 3 thing, so you might not understand
Yes I Walk the Walk |
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Mr. Bubblehead
El Chupa Nibre
Joined: October 25, 2002
Posts: 2756
Location: 612 Wharf Avenue
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Martin-
Have you (or anyone else) found a way to "make it work", without grafting in a new pillar? I can't open my pop-outs 'cause they will fall out! I thought of fabbing tabs to tack or rivet into the existing pillar, but haven't come up with a good solution yet. Also does anyone have a source for the plastic bushing that goes over the pop-out hinge on the window?
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OGST
Samba Member #4862 |
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GjMan
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2004
Posts: 834
Location: Grand Junction, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| What Martin said. I first tried it just using the existing slots on the pillar of the non-popout car. Window fell out. Very embarassing. |
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TheDDB
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2003
Posts: 752
Location: Type 3 Central - Portland OR -
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
Martin-
Have you (or anyone else) found a way to "make it work", without grafting in a new pillar? I can't open my pop-outs 'cause they will fall out! I thought of fabbing tabs to tack or rivet into the existing pillar, but haven't come up with a good solution yet. Also does anyone have a source for the plastic bushing that goes over the pop-out hinge on the window? |
No-
Yo need the b-piller with the tab-
Even if you fabbed a tab it might not hold-and will fall out as you drive down the street 
Or the window will fit crooked
You dont really need the bushing, but if you do want them I think we have a few around here.
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Martin Magnia
Home of the only bolt on type 3 air ride kit
http://www.theDDB.com
Its a type 3 thing, so you might not understand
Yes I Walk the Walk |
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PIMPPRIDE
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2003
Posts: 879
Location: Carson California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
Martin-
Have you (or anyone else) found a way to "make it work", without grafting in a new pillar? |
yes, you do not need to change the whole pillar, you just need to dissect the donor for the tab inside the pillar, and then weld it inside the post of the project car, this is what the pop out frame is going to grab on to... we have done quite a few of these over the years, this RHD notch was already painted and came to us for pop outs & some interior work... the photos are poor but gives you the idea, just drill out the factory spot welds to the bracket, don't forget the bracket to mount the latches in the rear, this procedure would be the same for squareback also...
Anthony / ISP WEST
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Mr. Bubblehead
El Chupa Nibre
Joined: October 25, 2002
Posts: 2756
Location: 612 Wharf Avenue
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I was actually hoping there was a way to attach the tabs on the outside of the pillar. My interior (as well as the rest of the car) is already done 
I wouldn't mind repainting the pillar after attaching the tabs, and since the tabs are on the hinge side of the window I don't think it would even show.
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OGST
Samba Member #4862 |
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volkstop
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 37
Location: 94110
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: How to.... |
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Don't bother welding. Wow, upgrade to the bad hinge style of the popout donor... NO WAY! 
These hinges are absolutely in my top 10 for drunken engineer's design at Vw.
Type 3 pop out hinges, everything to do with them... FAIL 
Here is what I have been doing for years and it works every time. I have had the dreaded pop out pop-out in my type 3's enough times, leaving the classic deep scratch down my nice fender.. not to mention they rattle, you can never get the bushings to stay in place on install..
I love all original cars but I would rather a concours car with this upgrade.
I will always be doing this upgrade to my T-3's.
Use type one hinges. As simple as that. 
Drill and tap the popout window, put the window up to the car and drill the pillar for the screws there. Finish with the type one hinge cover & Done. Pop outs that you don't have to fear will scratch the side of your freshly restored T-3.
Cheers,
Christopher
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Chris
San Francisco, Ca. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23356
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:35 am Post subject: Re: How to.... |
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| volkstop wrote: |
Don't bother welding. Wow, upgrade to the bad hinge style of the popout donor... NO WAY!
Use type one hinges. As simple as that.
Drill and tap the popout window, put the window up to the car and drill the pillar for the screws there. Finish with the type one hinge cover & Done. Pop outs that you don't have to fear will scratch the side of your freshly restored T-3.
Cheers,
Christopher |
If you look at the year this post started, and last post, it was back in 2004.
That said, I have to agree that T-1 hinges do work better. However, you can't get away without doing some welding on a non-pop out car (71 and later). I say that, because the "C" post won't have the plate that allows the latch to be screwed in place, so you need to do something there. Yes, you could use some sort of riv-nut, but the only support you get from those is the sheet metal, and not the plate behind it (to spread out the force).
But what everyone misses that are installing pop outs, is the rubber sleeves for the hinges themselves. You can't just put the pop out in without them, and expect the window to stay put. You have to have all of the parts.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5552
Location: Lefty, CA
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Zarana-X
Samba Dreadnok
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 372
Location: How could hell be any worse?
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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That explains alot. I too, foolishly tried to install popouts in my square. I knew somethign was wrong. They seemed secure while shut. Then one fell out while I went around a corner, swinging around on the latch.
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"In order to create, you have to destroy." |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23356
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I started out with that method, but couldn't get the window to sit right, so I eliminated the aluminum angle from it, and just drilled and tapped the side of the window frame. I used the original hinge screws to attach the hinge with too. I did that with a bare window frame, and used a cut off wheel to trim the screws down a little, before I reassembled the window with new seals.
I also used a couple of 10-32 weld nuts for the latch end. Yes, those got welded in place, but if you're careful (and remove anything flamable) you can weld them in with most of the interior still in place (the vinyl covers the welds). I believe it was page 22 of my "been busy" thread (link in my signature) that I showed installing the pop outs in my 71 Notch using bug hinges.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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sherpa7200
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2010
Posts: 43
Location: Stanford, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks BobNotch and Volkstop for the advice here. I'm following your recommendation and converting to the Type 1 hinge on my Squareback when putting in popout windows. I think I know the answer to this question ("yes"), but I want to be sure before I cut the piece off (measure twice, cut once). On the frame that holds the glass, do you need to cut off the lip that slides into the B pillar in order to install the Type 1 hinge. I can't see how you can use the hinge without doing this, but just in case...
Also, has anyone tried screwing a 1/8 inch metal plate to the outside of the C pillar to beef it up before attaching the rear clasp? Folks have recommended going behind the C pillar and welding a plate in the back but I don't have the skill/tools to do that. I realize this is probably not ideal, but perhaps better than just using Rivnuts without reinforcement.
Thanks for any advice folks have.
Tom
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1978 Westfalia |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23356
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| sherpa7200 wrote: |
Thanks BobNotch and Volkstop for the advice here. I'm following your recommendation and converting to the Type 1 hinge on my Squareback when putting in popout windows. I think I know the answer to this question ("yes"), but I want to be sure before I cut the piece off (measure twice, cut once). On the frame that holds the glass, do you need to cut off the lip that slides into the B pillar in order to install the Type 1 hinge. I can't see how you can use the hinge without doing this, but just in case...
Also, has anyone tried screwing a 1/8 inch metal plate to the outside of the C pillar to beef it up before attaching the rear clasp? Folks have recommended going behind the C pillar and welding a plate in the back but I don't have the skill/tools to do that. I realize this is probably not ideal, but perhaps better than just using Rivnuts without reinforcement.
Thanks for any advice folks have.
Tom |
I'm not sure what you're asking here. I do know that you have to remove the curved hinge pieces from the pop out window frame. Note, this IS for using the T-1 hinge.
You don't need to cut anything, except a slot in the "C" post to slip in a piece of thicker metal to anchor the latch with, or use a riv-nut insert (for those that don't want to do any welding). The drawback to using the riv-nut, is getting it in the right location, and it being the right size.
What I did, was put the T-1 hinge in the center of the window opening front. Drill my thru holes in the "B" post, and attach it in place. Now with the glass out of the pop out window frame, put the frame back together, and use some 2 inch tape to center the frame in the window opening (without the glass in the frame, it's lighter, and easier to locate). Then drill new holes in the frame, and tap them for your screws (I used a 3.5mm tap, as that's what VW used for the curved window hinge pieces, and re-used the VW screws). Then trim the screw lengths with a die grinder or dremel, and remove the window frame and hinge from the car (leave the hinge attached to the window frame). Split the frame, and install the new inner seal, and reassemble the window. Then add the outer seal. Now you can install the completed window into the opening, and start working on the latch end. I used weld in nut-serts on mine.
Just so you know, you can't add a plate to the topside of the post, as that'll cause the window to have to be pulled too far in to latch. You can actually break the latch by forcing it to move to far. This is why you cut a slot in the "C" post, slip your "tap plate" in place, attach the latch, and trim the excess off. You could also cut the slot for the plate, insert it, and screw the plate to the inside of the post, then trim off the excess plate material, then locate the latch, and drill and tap it in the correct location.
I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23356
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I dug thru my thread and brought up these pics to help you see what I'm talking about.
Once I got one side to fit good, I started the other side. With an idea of what I needed to do, it went a lot easier than the first side did. I then cleaned up the frames, and installed the glass and new seals in the left side. Afterward, I installed the window. Here's a couple of shots.
Here's me doing what the latch should be doing. I've still got that part to do, but I want to get the right as close as the left. What I like about this shot, is that the seal is nice and tight to the body.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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