Help me build my engine.

[xathor]

I have been debating for the last few days how to go about doing this, but I would like your guys input into building my motor.

I've read other build up threads where people have already purchased parts and they ask opinions but ultimately do whatever they want no matter who says what. I know there are a lot of people on this forum that have been in this game for a long time building some of the best motors out there and I am here to take their advice, and your advice into building this motor.

The car: This motor is going to go into my 64 beetle. The car is already lowered a spline in the rear and 3 inches in the front with drop spindles. Ground clearance is an issue (sumps, merged exhausts... etc). I just put a new (to me) transmission in the car out of a 66 beetle. I installed the transmission using new urethane bushings. I still have to clearance the inside of the bellhousing a little more to fit a 200mm flywheel, which I will do tomorrow and take pictures.

Intent: Now, the guidelines for what I would like out of this motor. I would like for this to be a low to mid revving torque motor with similar characteristics to what you find in todays engines. I'm not a fan of revving motors out to 7,000+ rpm to make power. How much power am I looking for? We will see what it makes. I will dyno this motor when its all said and done. I'm more interested in driveablility. Most likely this motor will be fuel injected with Megasquirt. I like to cruise on the interstate, and drive around without much of a destination. Having good gas milage would be great too, that will come into play later with tuning the EFI.

Limitations: I'm not rich. I'd like to see this stay on a budget that would be reasonable for the average person. I would like to document everything purchased to build this motor, links to where they can be purchased, part numbers, prices... Pictures step by step (with your help) so that any other person could stumble across this and build the same exact motor without any worry that they ordered the wrong part, or did something wrong.

When you reply to this, could you please keep specific comments on such things such as Rods, Clearnanceing, Assembly, etc... grouped together in your comment such as...

"Crankshaft: I think that this part...whatever"
"Valves: You would be better off with...whatever"

...so that it is easier to search for other people? Thanks.

Starting point: I have a dual relief AS41 case that I dropped off to a machine shop to get checked out, and bored to accept 94mm pistons. I also took some G03 heads and had them checked out and bored to accept the 94mm pistons as well. I am familiar with porting and would like a hand at trying it myself so others may see from my mistakes (or successes) and try for themselves. If I mess up, oh well... I'll buy whatever heads you guys recommend.

First we need to select what parts are going to be used, and find out whats good and whats bad, whats OK for a budget and what parts its best to spend a little extra cash on.

Crankshaft: Ive read that I definitely want a counterweighted crankshaft. Ive also read that 78mm fit in with H beam rods no problem. From what I have read though, I beam rods would work better in my application (low rev, budget -also might turbo this later-) ... How hard would it be to clearance for a larger stroke? I have carbide burs and don't mind getting dirty. How hard could it be? Take a little out at a time until the crank can turn 360 degree's without hitting anything.. right? I cant see any reason I wouldn't want a larger stroke. What do you guys recommend for size, material, places to buy cranks?

Rods: I am not extreamly sure about rod lengths. I know that rod angle is important and that AC.net (http://aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/t1hpeng.htm) has a good section in their article about building a motor. I have a set of rods already from when I tore the motor down, stock I assume. I'll get some pictures of them up tomorrow. If they are good and can be used, why not? Unless you tell me otherwise or think another part would be better.

Im going to start this off like this. Try to build the motor from the center out. Hopefully when this is all said and done I will have a great motor in my car and a helpful how to step by step guide (with pictures, links, where to buy, prices and tips and tricks) for anyone wanting to build this motor for themselves. I would also like to compile a list of recommended books with ISBN for anyone to go to their local bookstore for more information on such things as: Porting, Assembly, EFI.. etc.

I look forward to your comments, suggestions and seeing what ends up being built.

[xathor]

Crankshaft: Some links to some cranks I was looking at. Not sure of a stroke length yet.

--------------List of Crankshafts ---------------
#1 - Aircooled.net Bugpack 4340 Stroker Crankshaft $299.95
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECR0006&cartid=0807200841795942
(several options available)

#2 - CB Performance Super Race 4340 $298.95
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=153
(several options available)

#3 - Cip1.com Forged 4340 Stroker Crankshaft $229.95
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D8181
(78mm with VW journal)

#4 - Cip1.com SCAT 4340 Forged VOLKSRACER Crankshaft $349.95
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C15%2D101412%2D1
(84mm with VW Journal)
---------------------End of List---------------------------


I also am not familiar with the pros and cons of the VW journal vs. the Chevy journal. Any pro's wanna lend their knowledge?

I am also interested in little things such as this http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=157 It is a Crankshaft Racer Spacer. Sounds great, Im not sure what it does other than the product description. For $5 it can't hurt? Opinions?

I also saw some windage trays and would like some more opinions on them. My experiance with windage trays is only on my old 2.0 ABA turbo motor I built and I am not 100% sure but I believe it helped out with my oil starvation issue I was having during extreamly hard cornering.

[xathor]

Rods: H beam rods sure are pretty. Are they needed? If this engine is capable of revving out to 6,000 (or more) then awesome. I probably will rip on it a few times, who doesn't? A lot of places sell lots of different types of rods at all kinds of lengths and different journals..

------List of Rods--------------------
#1 Aircooled.net rebuilt connecting rods $70+$10 core.
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECR0004&cartid=0807200841795942
(Rebuilt as they say, reputable company though)

#2 Aircooled.net Bugpack, SCAT, and ACN 4340 High Performance Connecting Rods $Varies
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECR0005&cartid=0807200841795942
(several brandsand types, H beam rods are way more expensive than I beam)

#3 CB Performance Uni-Tech HD Plus $139.95
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1513
(price is good and come with ARP bolts, 5.4")

#4 CB Performance Super Race Rods $249.95
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=152
(several lengths and journals, look very beefy)

#5 CB Performance Uni-Tech Performance $89.95
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1179
(look like a good deal for the money, $50 more gets you the HD rods though)

#6 Cip1.com Uni-Tech HD Plus $139.95
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D8340
(same part and price as #3)

#7 Cip1.com SUPER 4340 CHROMOLY H-BEAM RACE $209.95
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D8310%2DARP
(ARP bolts, 5.4" with VW Journal. Look good)
-------------End of List--------------------



Just idea's. Tomorrow I am gonna look at pistons and cylinders and check and see your guys opinions on what to buy. If there's a general consensus and enough people make comments I will purchase a crank, rods and P&C set Monday.

We gotta figure out what size this motor is gonna be, compression ratio...etc. Lots of work to do!

[Sigurd]

[MConstable]

Sounds like you want the same performing engine as I did...tons of torque in the low to mid range.
Here's what I was recommended and went with...
DPR counterweight 82 crank/matching flywheel, I used a racerspacer...probabaly overkill.
Web 163 (got a lot of recommendations for the 218 as well) ground on 105 lobe seperation angle (Aircooled.net)
DRD Level 5 heads
CB H-beam rods (I-beams would be fine)
If you're having your case machined anyway, there's no reason not to go with a bigger stroke.
Hope this helps.
_________________
1974 Thing

[xathor]

Thank you for your replies.

I'm looking for specifics. What exact rods, pistons, flywheel, etc... did you use? Like, you said H beam rods. But who's H beam rods? What length? What journal? How much did you pay for them? Is there anything that you would replace or wish you would have spent just a little more money and gotten? Anything you purchased and you didn't need?

I hope this isn't too much trouble.

[xathor]

Machine shop wants to know what P&C's im going with so they can cut it more exactly...

-------------List of Pistons---------------
#1 - CB Performance Super Big Bore Kits w/Forged Pistons $235.95
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=168
(94x82)

#2 - AC.net Piston and Cylinder Kits $298.95
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=EPS0001&cartid=0807200841795942
(94xLong)
-----------End of List------------------



After doing some research digging for decent looking pistons, I ran across GeneBerg.com which recommends not using anything larger than 90.5mm for longevity. 90.5x82 is a 2110cc which seem fairly popular.

If I go with the thickwall 90.5 (http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?cPath=2668&products_id=531) and have the case cut for 92's... would the longetivity be that greatly increased?

[xathor]

Also, researching Rods and such on Geneberg.com I find that they don't recommend a VW Journal on any stroke longer than 78mm.

Right now I'm leaning towards a 90.5x82 with Chevy (Buick?) Journals.

I'd really like more opinions, Please?

[xathor]

Okay, i'm not getting many replies.

Here is what ive "settled" on after calling around and asking people.

---Longblock---
2110cc
90.5mm thick wall "B" pistons (either GB, CB or AC.net)
82mm stroke crankshaft (Most likely CB)
Unitech HD I beam rods 5.4" (Most likely CB)
DRD Level 2 or 5 heads (not sure yet)
Stock weight flywheel (I cruise a lot)
FK-8 Cam (Really looking into suggestions here)

[Sigurd]

I really can't offer a whole lot of suggestions, as I am still in the middle of my first performance build, but it seems like you are racing through this. I think the reason you aren't getting many replies is that a lot of your questions will be answered by your own reasearch.

You can't run 90.5s if you have the case and heads cut for 94s.

The traditional 92s are just bored out 90.5s. 90.5 and 92 use the same case opening. The new thick 92s use the same case opening as 94s.

As far as the cam goes, talk to whoever is doing your heads. You mentioned Darren, so ask him what he thinks of the FK8 for your application.

Don't "settle" for anything. It sounds like that's what you're doing because you're already at the machine shop phase and don't know a displacement yet.

[xathor]

Thanks for your reply, the machine shop hasn't done anything yet.

[xathor]

This is what I am looking at right now, from CB performance.

Customer Account - My Shopping CartTitle Qty Price
Crankshafts - Super Race
#1154 Super Race Crank - 82mm Stroke - VW Journals $289.95 remove

Super Big Bore Kits w/Forged Pistons
#1053 Super Big Bore Kit, 90.5 x 82mm $235.95 remove

Total Seal
#1209 90.5mm Total Seal Pro Set $69.95 remove

Connecting Rods - Uni-Tech HD Plus
#1252 Connecting Rods - UNI-TECH HD Plus - 5.400 (set of 4) $139.95 remove

Subtotal: $735.80

[73stroker]

You should contact scott s on here. He built a very similar engine and loves it. Here's a thread with him talking about it. Scroll down a few posts.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257405

[Marks67]

You are better off getting a crank and rods from drd, and he can balance it all for you at the same time. Also you will be saving yourself around $75.

Mark

[MConstable]

You need to slow down a bit...and give us factual information.
You said the shop was already cutting for 94's...then they haven't done anything yet.
90.5 "thickwalls"...no such thing, 90.5's are what they are...they are "thick" but there's no "thin" 90.5's. as opposed to the thick 82mms that AA offers that fit a 94 bore.
DRD Level 2 or 5?? Why would you choose a 2 over a 5?...that's a huge difference...what are you looking for?
Why would you go go with a CB crank over a German welded counterweighted crank from DPR...check their rep.
...Or an entire reciprocating assembly from Darren, who can hook you up with a package that includes the cam, crank, heads etc. who has an equally awesome rep?

No offense, I applaud you for doing the research, a lot don't, just take a deep breath and digest it.
_________________
1974 Thing

[xathor]

Thank you for your reply, this kind of information is exactly what I am looking for. I've called around and talked to people, only thing I have landed on so far is a 2110cc. I talked to a guy at LowBugget.com (where I got my Kadrons from) and found that I can put larger venturies in my Kads that I have now and use them with a 2110. This will save me lots of money over an EFI setup, and allows me to spend money elsewhere. I was actually reading over DRD's product PDF right now and descided to check TheSamba.

Link to the PDF for others: http://www.drdracingheads.com/pdf/drdcatalog.pdf[/quote]

[Sigurd]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=445621

That's what I got. I think that's a fair price too, for what you get, which includes balancing. It's a pretty complete longblock, so you need to add induction, ignition, tin and exhaust. Add a case and heads to the showing price, and you're right in the ballpark with other quality longblocks. I wanted to build it myself, so I didn't get a longblock or a turnkey outright.

Decent guy too. We talked on the phone one Saturday afternoon for about two hours discussing setups, his design philosophy and experience. I've just now starting building it, so that's all I've got.

[xathor]

called drd... im gonna orer that kit. 2110, its already balanced... im gonna throw my G03 heads on there and run with it until i can get some DRD L5s... gonna run with my kads until i can find a decent LS1 throttle body and do megasquirt.

[Sigurd]

Good stuff! What cam did he set you up with?

[MConstable]

Smart move
_________________
1974 Thing