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Millennium Falcon
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crxgames wrote:
My dog Beau in my 77 westy:
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Dogs should not be allowed to operate motor vehicles. Although they would probably make better drivers than 50% of the people on the road.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Kookee in the back and Babaganoush on the seat coming back from Armstrong Woods in Guerneville, CA

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Canine co-pilots Thread Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:
Dogs and other unrestrained pets, pose a serious safety hazard in the event of a collision. They should be wearing proper safety harnesses, which I know are available for dogs. In fact, exposing pets to unnecessary danger, could result in prosecution.

In addition, pets should not be carried in the front of the vehicle, where they might distract or interfere with the driver.


This might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Canine co-pilots Thread Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:
Dogs and other unrestrained pets, pose a serious safety hazard in the event of a collision. They should be wearing proper safety harnesses, which I know are available for dogs. In fact, exposing pets to unnecessary danger, could result in prosecution.

In addition, pets should not be carried in the front of the vehicle, where they might distract or interfere with the driver.


BusBerd wrote:
Nice thread.

This is Kate. She loves road tripping in the bus.

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safety harness?? yeah, my dog would sit still for that! Sorry if I am out of line here, but that seems a bit much. I always love your contributions to the forum, Nigel. I really do. I usually learn quite a bit from your posts, but this just seems silly to me. I guess, I'm willing to let my dog live it up now. If she dies in a collision, she will at least have enjoyed her life each day to the fullest. Quality not quantity. She would hate bus rides if I had to strap her down. Besides, I don't drive my bus for safety. Frankly, I think of my bus as a death trap. I am a much safer driver this way. If I ever get into a collision with my bus, I am more worried about eating my knees than being hit by my dog.
Just curious (and I DON'T mean to be pugnacious here) do you have a dog that rides in your bus? do you really harness it???
here is my dog "Kate" in part of a road trip video, loving the bus(is barefoot driving unadviseable too?Wink)

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bailey in the Bus.....

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For all of you volunteer firefighters out there....

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Nigel--nobody asked for your opinion. I for one despise your posts. Their wordiness, the atrocious punctuation, the horrible pictures. Not to mention your disgusting attitude. People like you are the reason there was a revolution in this country over 200 years ago.
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:08 am    Post subject: Canine co-pilots & restraint of pets during vehicular tr Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:
Dogs and other unrestrained pets, pose a serious safety hazard in the event of a collision. They should be wearing proper safety harnesses, which I know are available for dogs. In fact, exposing pets to unnecessary danger, could result in prosecution.

In addition, pets should not be carried in the front of the vehicle, where they might distract or interfere with the driver.


ScottK wrote:
...and Mr. Piss on the Parade shows up. Rolling Eyes


renobdarb wrote:
This might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.


VDubTech wrote:
Nigel--nobody asked for your opinion. I for one despise your posts. Their wordiness, the atrocious punctuation, the horrible pictures. Not to mention your disgusting attitude. People like you are the reason there was a revolution in this country over 200 years ago.


BusBerd wrote:
Safety harness?? yeah, my dog would sit still for that! Sorry if I am out of line here, but that seems a bit much. I always love your contributions to the forum, Nigel. I really do. I usually learn quite a bit from your posts, but this just seems silly to me. I guess, I'm willing to let my dog live it up now.

If she dies in a collision, she will at least have enjoyed her life each day to the fullest. Quality not quantity. She would hate bus rides if I had to strap her down. Besides, I don't drive my bus for safety. Frankly, I think of my bus as a death trap. I am a much safer driver this way. If I ever get into a collision with my bus, I am more worried about eating my knees than being hit by my dog.

Just curious (and I DON'T mean to be pugnacious here) do you have a dog that rides in your bus? do you really harness it???


These days, I don't have any pets, but experiences of my family's cat in the distant past, convinced me long ago, that pets on the loose in a vehicle, can be a real menace! Evil or Very Mad

Don't just take my word for it, refer to The Highway Code, published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, RoSPA (i.e. Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents), The Department of Transport and the following newspaper article:

Tom Kelly, "Belt up Bonzo! – Owners warned to strap in their dogs on car journeys", Daily Mail, Monday 1st November 2004, page 25.

« Dog owners are being urged to restrain their pet with a seatbelt during car journeys – because it will help save human lives. The Government is backing a safety campaign to stop man's best friend becoming a 'canine cannonball' in a crash.

It warns that in an accident, a medium-sized dog such as a border collie would be thrown forward at 30 mph – enough to kill a driver or passenger.

There have also been instances of dogs jumping out of the window of travelling vehicles, while nine in ten motorists who regularly travel with their pets report that they have proved a distraction. »



Refer to the following RoSPA website link and click on the "Carrying Pets Safely" PDF file, in the In Car Safety - Seat Belts, Air Bags, and Head Restraints section

http://www.rospa.com/RoadSafety/advice/incarsafety/index.htm

WileyVW wrote:
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Well done WileyVW! Smile I'm glad to see that at least one pet owner takes seriously, his responsibilities to his, pets, family and public at large.
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zxylon
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now another post is dead.
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Canine co-pilots & restraint of pets during vehicula Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:


WileyVW wrote:
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well done WileyVW! Smile I'm glad to see that at least one pet owner takes seriously, his responsibilities to his, pets, family and public at large.


That dog is standing up facing the rear of the Bus. He obviously isn't harnessed in or restrained. The red thing you see is a harness that you clip a leash on to walk the dog. An alternative to a collar around the neck. Nice try though. You're gonna die one of these days anyway, if my time comes with my dog through the back of my skull, so be it. At least we had fun while we were here.
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Canine co-pilots & restraint of pets during vehicula Reply with quote

[quote="VDubTech"]
NASkeet wrote:


WileyVW wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well done WileyVW! Smile I'm glad to see that at least one pet owner takes seriously, his responsibilities to his, pets, family and public at large.


That dog is standing up facing the rear of the Bus. He obviously isn't harnessed in or restrained. The red thing you see is a harness that you clip a leash on to walk the dog. An alternative to a collar around the neck. Nice try though. You're gonna die one of these days anyway, if my time comes with my dog through the back of my skull, so be it. At least we had fun while we were here. Can we get back on topic now and just enjoy the pics of people enjoying their animals and their Buses, without this completely unrelated bullshit from Nigel?
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hullo Nigel et al,
While I do find your posts generally enlightening, do be aware that this is an INTERNATIONAL forum, and as such "The Highway Code, published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, RoSPA (i.e. Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents), The Department of Transport" DOES NOT APPLY to most of us.

Cheers,
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on topic ... here's Bella on the way to Run to the Sun last year Cool

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately I don't have a dog and my cat hates the bus.... But I will say
chase wrote:
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That my favorite picture so far!!
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you think we fought the Revolutionary War??? We don't like our government making stupid rules like restraining our dogs in our cars. If the U.S. tried to do something like that, Wyoming, Montana and South Dakota likely would secede from the Union. You can't go 10 miles out here w/o seeing some ranch dog riding shotgun with his owner or running free on the flatbed. It's a way of life.

Also, the Daily Mail is a waste of good newsprint. I wouldn't even consider wiping my ass with it or using it to paper-train a new puppy.

Bottom line, know your dog and don't let it get into trouble. Let her have some fun!
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Canine co-pilots & restraint of pets during vehicula Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:
Don't just take my word for it, refer to The Highway Code, published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, RoSPA (i.e. Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents)


Unless you've got a photo of the Queen Mum and the royal hounds taking a spin in the royal Bay Window, I don't give a rat's ass what she has to day about taking my pups for a ride. (Sorry, no photos as the bus is still a work in progress.)

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Not a VW and No Dog...so STFU about what the "Queen's Code" says about me driving with my dogs here in GA.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Canine co-pilots & restraint of pets during vehicula Reply with quote

VW12Step wrote:

Unless you've got a photo of the Queen Mum and the royal hounds taking a spin in the royal Bay Window, I don't give a rat's ass what she has to say about taking my pups for a ride.


Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow....talk about some serious hostility!!!!

I will say this...

As an ower of some rather LARGE dogs - harnesses are NOT a bad idea. Lizzy is pretty lethargic and when full grown will outweigh me. Rocky on the other hand --- well - he still is pushing 90 pounds. Thats a lot of weight - even when I slam on my brakes. That being said.

In modern cars - like my friend's truck - I do have a special padded U-Shaped thing for them to ride in. Corners, and braking seem to affect them the most. They've learned to lie down when cornering and in City traffic.

A harness will not be an option for Lizzy when she is full grown.

That being said....

In a passenger car - I can see where having a harness is a good idea - where the dog is on the same level as the rest of us = and for dogs of a certain size. But in a Bus!? We don't have shoulder harnesses - except the front seat - and I'm sure our Significant Others would appreciate Fido getting that over them - right? Twisted Evil

My dogs prefer the rear of the bus - so it isn't an issue. They get up on the couch and sleep - or right behind the slider.

Besides if I'm in a big accident - I think I'd be more worried about the 300 pounds of camper equipment breaking loose and flying forward into the back of my head. LOL.

If I die driving any AC VW - I will have counted it as "The way he wanted to go."
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Wow....talk about some serious hostility!!!!

I will say this...

As an ower of some rather LARGE dogs - harnesses are NOT a bad idea. Lizzy is pretty lethargic and when full grown will outweigh me. Rocky on the other hand --- well - he still is pushing 90 pounds. Thats a lot of weight - even when I slam on my brakes. That being said.

In modern cars - like my friend's truck - I do have a special padded U-Shaped thing for them to ride in. Corners, and braking seem to affect them the most. They've learned to lie down when cornering and in City traffic.

A harness will not be an option for Lizzy when she is full grown.

That being said....

In a passenger car - I can see where having a harness is a good idea - where the dog is on the same level as the rest of us = and for dogs of a certain size. But in a Bus!? We don't have shoulder harnesses - except the front seat - and I'm sure our Significant Others would appreciate Fido getting that over them - right? Twisted Evil

My dogs prefer the rear of the bus - so it isn't an issue. They get up on the couch and sleep - or right behind the slider.

Besides if I'm in a big accident - I think I'd be more worried about the 300 pounds of camper equipment breaking loose and flying forward into the back of my head. LOL.

If I die driving any AC VW - I will have counted it as "The way he wanted to go."


Well said.

At times my pup is restrained, specifically in my car, while at other times he is free to roam (in the bus). I am surprised that none of the US states have laws regarding restraint for dogs but then again I don't know your law system very well. Here in Ontario there are such laws however they are rarely, if ever, enforced. My boy Felix loves to ride shotgun in the bus and to make sure he does not fly into the windshield in a hard braking maneuver I usually have the passenger seat spun around to face the back. Works like a charm!

Anyway, here are some pictures of my boy Felix in the bus! Obviously he is small... weighs in at 12.2 lbs..

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Sorry for the poor quality phone pictures...the ex got the camera...
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nigel, Ryan & Jerome, I agree with your comments. In life there are a lot of things one should do. Tethering not only your animals, but any other object with considerable mass should be done before any drive. I have read that in a 30 mph collision, an object can exert a force 20 times its weight. So, my 55LB dog could exert an 1100 pound force on me!!

In my first (and only) accident, back when I was 17, I put a brand new Suzuki 4x4 into a ditch. As you might expect, I was going far too fast in icy conditions and wound up sliding sideways into a deep ditch. $6000 in damage later I escaped unscathed EXCEPT the bruises and cuts on my face caused by my portable CD player and CDs that had been on the passenger seat.

Some US states, including California are now mandating animal restraints. Certainly there is an element of protecting the animal's safety, but the main reasons are reduced driver distraction and reduced injury when your dog becomes a flying projectile.

Now, I am agreeing with you that you should tether your animals. Though I used to have a gate to keep my dog in the back of my SUV, I have never tethered it in the bus.

I suppose we could also debate the safety of driving the buses in general, but that may trivialize the importance of Nigel's suggestion..

Here's some pictures of my dog in the bus.. She only rides up front when she's cold, the rest of the time the back seat is her kingdom:

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:00 am    Post subject: Canine co-pilots Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Wow....talk about some serious hostility!!!!

I will say this...

As an ower of some rather LARGE dogs - harnesses are NOT a bad idea. Lizzy is pretty lethargic and when full grown will outweigh me. Rocky on the other hand --- well - he still is pushing 90 pounds. Thats a lot of weight - even when I slam on my brakes.

In a passenger car - I can see where having a harness is a good idea - where the dog is on the same level as the rest of us = and for dogs of a certain size. But in a Bus!? We don't have shoulder harnesses - except the front seat - and I'm sure our Significant Others would appreciate Fido getting that over them - right? Twisted Evil

Besides if I'm in a big accident - I think I'd be more worried about the 300 pounds of camper equipment breaking loose and flying forward into the back of my head. LOL.


The issue of campervan furniture & equipment coming loose during a collision is an important one, raised in an issue of Transporter Talk magazine, not so long ago. One which needs to be addressed by many campervan owners, including myself!

Noting that you don't have rear seatbelts (or rather, three-point lap & diagonal seatbelts), I presume in that case that you do not carry rear-seat passengers, including children!?!

JMazier wrote:
I am surprised that none of the US states have laws regarding restraint for dogs but then again I don't know your law system very well. Here in Ontario there are such laws however they are rarely, if ever, enforced.


fukengruvenoval wrote:
Nigel, Ryan & Jerome, I agree with your comments. In life there are a lot of things one should do. Tethering not only your animals, but any other object with considerable mass should be done before any drive. I have read that in a 30 mph collision, an object can exert a force 20 times its weight. So, my 55LB dog could exert an 1100 pound force on me!!

Some US states, including California are now mandating animal restraints. Certainly there is an element of protecting the animal's safety, but the main reasons are reduced driver distraction and reduced injury when your dog becomes a flying projectile.

Now, I am agreeing with you that you should tether your animals. Though I used to have a gate to keep my dog in the back of my SUV, I have never tethered it in the bus.

I suppose we could also debate the safety of driving the buses in general, but that may trivialize the importance of Nigel's suggestion..


I didn't join this debate, or indeed any other debate, to engage in USA bashing! There is much about the USA to commend, but also much to criticise, as indeed there is in Great Britain, or any other nation. I am fornunate to have been born British, endowed with many advantages (including the all-pervasive "English" language, law, culture & literature) over most, if not not all other nations in the World, but that does not mean I cannot appreciate the characteristics of other nationalities. Rolling Eyes

I cite British publications and laws, because in many respects they reflect best current practice, although sometimes they are interpretted over-zealously by officialdom; often because of the increasing tendency towards litigation, much favoured originally in the USA, but which has now alas crossed the ocean to Great Britain. I am sure that if one took the trouble to search, one would find similar sentiments expressed by Governmental and independent organisations, in their publications and Internet websites, in the both the USA and other "former" British colonies.

I could not find a website URL, for the newspaper article from which I quoted, so here it is transcribed in full, from my collection of newspaper clippings:

Tom Kelly, "Belt up, Bonzo! Owners warned to strap in their dogs on car journeys", Daily Mail, Monday 1st November 2004, page 25.

Dog owners are being urged to restrain their pet with a seatbelt during car journeys - because it will help save human lives.

The Government is backing a safety campaign to stop man's best friend from becoming a 'canine cannonball' in a crash. It warns that in an accident, a medium-sized dog such as a border collie would be thrown forward at 30 mph - enough to kill a driver or passenger.

Vets have also reported the dogs themselves suffering serious internal injuries after being hurled through the windscreen from the back seat. There have also been instances of dogs jumping out of the window of travelling vehicles, while nine in ten motorists who regularly travel with their pets report that they have proved a distraction.

The Department of Transport has funded an advisory leaflet written by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents to highlight the dangers. It says special harnesses are the best method of restraining medium to large dogs. These fit around the chest, back and shoulders and have a loop or clip through which a seatbelt can be fastened.

The leaflet adds that smaller dogs, cats and other animals should be kept in a pet carrier secured by a normal seatbelt or jammed in the car footwell. The RAC (i.e. Royal Automobile Club) recently accredited a range of car harnesses created by the animal accessories firm Petbrands. They are sold at pet stores across the country, costing from £10 to £15 depending on the size of the dog.

A spokesman for RoSPA (i.e. Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents) said: "People have been shocked by television advertisements showing a teenager not wearing a seatbelt in a rear seat, being flung forwards and killing the driver. But they don't seem to realise that the consequences can be just as horrific if a dog is unrestrained in a car."

The advisory leaflet also warns that unrestrained pets can distract drivers and case accidents. After a crash they could escape from the car and be hit by passing vehicles or cause collisions. Frightened might also attack a stranger going to assist an injured driver. And one woman was killed when her cat became jammed under the brake pedal.

The People's Dispensary for Sick Animals charity estimates that upto a fifth of those it treats have been involved in road accidents, often when they were in the car. There is currently no law requiring pets to be secured in cars, although some vets have argued that legislation should be introduced.

Campaigners say it is just as necessary as the recently-introduced law, banning the use of hand-held phones in cars - another potential distraction. The Highway Code states that dogs or other animals must be 'suitably restrained' to prevent them distracting drivers or causing injury in an emergency stop, but in practice the rule is rarely enforced.

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