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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Ghia Nut wrote: |
1584 dual port 
Going to blow through Dual Dell 36DRLAs, already prepped for turbo application.
Im all ears. |
I'll admit, I don't know a LOT about blow-through.
It's superior to draw-through in many respects but it's also more complicated.....and pricey.
I like simple..... 
Hell, try your T25, it might work just fine.
A suggestion if you do.......
Buy the turbo mounting plate that has the T25 pattern that matches yours AS WELL AS a Garrett T3 pattern!
You won't regret it.
Later on down the road when you decide to upgrade to a T3 (or T3/T4), the bolt pattern will be there waiting.
I did that exact same thing and it made the turbo upgrade/swap WORLDS easier.
As for those Dells, I have NO idea where to start on those little guys.
Make a thread of your own asking for input on where to start.
I'm SURE there's someone out there who's done it.
Best of luck!
Once you get it ironed out, you'll ask yourself why you didn't boost earlier!
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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Billyisgr8
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2004
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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This is so awsome to see, makes me smile. I think we need a singleport club...haha....
Nice work with the T3/T4.
Kevin |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: UPDATE! Carbon Sealed! |
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Hello all,
I've been driving the buggy with a dynamic seal in my home-brewed T3/T4 hybrid.
Let's just say it's not a good thing.
I fouled two sets of plugs in no time and have been using oil.....not a LOT, just enough to be a nuisance.
SO I sent out feelers to three companies about Carbon Seal kits to convert the T04E compressor.
I found a company on Ebay that has a fantastic price on the set-up:
CNC'ed anodized blue backing plate (NICE!! Smooth with ZERO logo's or other engravings!), carbon seal, thrust plate, spacer and the thrust bearing. All for about $125.
Got it in NO time (yesterday) via Priority Mail and installed it last night.
Took it for a spin this morning.
Incredible.
ZERO smoke, much better A/F readings (they must have been skewed by the oil in the mix) AND a MEAN-looking blue backing plate with a shiny new compressor housing I scored off of local Craigslist. 
Heck, the turbo looks like something you'd pick up for $1200 from one of the "big boys". 
To sum it up.......carbon seal any draw-through system.
It's just not worth the issues of oil consumption, fouled plugs and oil polluting the the incoming fuel charge-both are BIG no-no's when you're under boost!
I'll do my best to get some pics.
My camera is NOT playing nice with my computer again.
"Plug and Play" has become "Plug, cuss, try another USB port, plug, cuss, repeat.....". No fun.
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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manxcraig
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2006
Posts: 617
Location: pendelton (indianapolis) indiana
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to be going through this thread closely, I'm wanting to do a turbo on a very mild 1835. Any one know much about blow-through setups?
_________________
69 Meyers Manx II on 65 pan, 1 owner !
WANTED, Meyers Manx license plate frames, repo OK, don't like the new smiles per miles ones. |
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Ghia Nut
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2003
Posts: 1566
Location: B'ham Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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would like to see pics 
if you are interested on Blow through, get Bob Tomlinson's book Turbomania. Good read and he breaks it down.
Also go to www.shoptalkforums.com and go to Forced Induction Forum
_________________
'59 typ1 rajay turbo
'72 Ghia rajay 1641 dual 36DRLAs, 1 3/8" SS merged header and fat boy
78" GL Vert with ej22t swap
This will likely change tomorrow to something else. |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Pictures of the new backplate!
Hi folks,
My USB bus decided to have mercy on me this morning and allow downloading of the turbo pics. 
The carbon seal and backplate fit perfectly.
I couldn't be happier.
Besides....it looks SWEET, don't you think?
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: Quality time with the LM-1! |
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Hi folks,
A little jetting re-cap from before:
At the end of the last dyno session with the T25, I left with 72 jets in the secondaries to reach a LOW 11/HIGH 10 A/F at 21 lbs. of boost.
Some time with my LM-1 showed that jetting was WAY lean with the new T3/T4 at only 16 lbs.!
A session of drilling jets and testing brought me up to an unknown but working jet size: I know, I know.....drilling jets!??!? Yes, I did it and have done it many times successfully in the past.
I picked up a complete Holley jet kit off of Craigslist for less than half of new.
Well.....my drilled jet turned out to be about the size of an 89-90!
That ended up too rich (Low 10's/High 9's and popping due to over-fuel) once I got the carbon seal installed and no more oil was in my mixture.
AND a pretty serious flat spot at 2000-3000 RPM.
That's where I started today.
And here's how it went:
Jetting:
I immediately went down 4 jet sizes to 85.
That put me in the mid-11's A/F.
Not where I want to be.
Went to 87 and got 10.8-11.4. Perfect.
The flat spot:
First thing I pursued was the secondaries opening too fast-they were.
I went spring by spring until I reached the brown one-just right.
It's MUCH better to drive part throttle now as the secondary throttle blades were opening too fast.
I can climb hills in fourth where I had to go to third before.
Next I added some squirter volume because it still showed a lean mix at tip-in.....drilled the squirter to 1/16 (.0625"), after several tries.
MUCH better!
Absolutely phenomenal.
It never ceases to amaze me how this thing just keeps getting better and better.
After the last dyno session (when the T25 thrust failed), myself and the dyno operator thought, "we've run out of head flow".
Nope.
I ran out of TURBO!
The T25 was pumping hot air, that's it, at 21 lbs..
Now the T3/T4 is using 15 jet sizes MORE FUEL at 5 lbs. LESS boost.
Meaning MUCH more efficient intake charge and a turbo that's barely breaking a sweat.
I NEED to get this thing back to the dyno before it comes apart.
I have a VERY good feeling it's gonna be a shocking increase in power and torque.
As I said before.....I do wish I would have done this turbo from day one.
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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yancyholden
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Louisiana
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| would it be possible to get a bit more details on how your tranny is set up to handle that power. you mentioned it being beefed up but i don't remember reading what that actually entailed. |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| yancyholden wrote: |
| would it be possible to get a bit more details on how your tranny is set up to handle that power. you mentioned it being beefed up but i don't remember reading what that actually entailed. |
Sure!
Swingaxle built by Archway Import Parts' (in St. Louis) transaxle specialist:
Stock gear ratios
3.88 ring and pinion
Welded third and fourth
Steel Forks
Steel Keys
Dual aftermarket sidecovers (most of the time you only use one, I had two available )
4 spider diff
In a nutshell?
A "Pro Street" tranny with the "freeway flyer" 3.88 ring and pinion.
Trust me.....the 3.88 is a MUST with the turbo.
NO NEED for deeper gears or even close ratios.
The torque carries me through every gear and I NEVER feel it nose over/bog.
Mine has served me well for going on two years of relentless abuse.
Third gear syncros are shot and it's popping out of 2nd from time to time.
Time for a freshening.
I'll do that when the 1915 goes in.....no time soon.
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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I wish now that I had gone with a 3.88 instead of 4.12, but it still works pretty well. Turbos love long gears.
_________________
Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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yancyholden
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: |
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thanks for the info. i've thought about trying the tranny rebuild myself, i've been wanting to tear into one for a while, but after looking at all the jigs and tools that it would require i think i'm going to have to have someone do it for me.
at least now i know what to ask for. |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| yancyholden wrote: |
thanks for the info. i've thought about trying the tranny rebuild myself, i've been wanting to tear into one for a while, but after looking at all the jigs and tools that it would require i think i'm going to have to have someone do it for me.
at least now i know what to ask for. |
For what a colossal pain in the rear end it is to remove and replace a transaxle....and what an expensive disaster it would be to scatter the internal parts due to a clearance snafu......pay someone to do it!
That was THE most expensive part of my buggy build-the tranny.
It's lasted two years now with non-stop abuse and just recently starting to die and that's merely third gear synchros. Second may not be long for this world, either.
No matter, it'll all be cured when it's removed and freshened.
Maybe fall or winter.
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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lanceevox
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2008
Posts: 238
Location: West Marin, CA.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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makes me want to run a mitsu turbo on my 1970 sp 1600.. I have a stock trans axle though... I am also contemplating buying a 914 which I would put $$$ into. Maybe run low boost on the sp to avoid broken axles and what not? I doubt I would be running low boost for long.. 
_________________
-Nikolai
1963 1200cc rag top bug
1970 1600cc SP bug. sold
1970 1600cc DP bug. sold |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lanceevox wrote: |
| makes me want to run a mitsu turbo on my 1970 sp 1600.. I have a stock trans axle though... I am also contemplating buying a 914 which I would put $$$ into. Maybe run low boost on the sp to avoid broken axles and what not? I doubt I would be running low boost for long.. |
Truth be told, I bet it wouldn't be the axles that'd fail first.
More than likely the 3rd or 4th gears.
They're 2 piece and need to be welded together.
That's the first thing that failed on mine-spun the 3rd gear on it's hub.
The stock differential wouldn't be long for this world, either.
Save yourself a lot of work and downtime; build a monster trans. and be done with it.
You're right.....low boost doesn't last for long.
WAY too easy to turn it up.
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I got a wild hair today and tried a couple things:
1. Added timing: I have plenty of octane to support it off-boost and plenty of retard in the BTM to accomodate more base timing on boost.
So I went from 31 degrees to 36 total.
Incredible.
A completely different car off-boost.
Smoother, easier to cruise the backroads in a higher gear than before.
Why I didn't do this before, I have NO idea.....too many other big plans floating through my tiny mind, I guess. 
Kept the retard at 1 degree per lb.. i.e. 21 degrees total at 16 lbs. of boost (BTM only goes to 15).
2. Took fuel OUT! The motor does NOT like being in the 10's for A/F!
There was a serious flat spot and the rpm's didn't climb as they used to.
So I pulled 4 jet sizes out (from 87 to 83).
OH that's better!!
Haven't put the LM1 back on yet but the flat spot (pig rich) is gone and it pulls silly strong now.
HUGE improvement all around.
I also shortened the prop rod that attaches the carb-mount to the header.
The T3 housing has a slightly different mounting height and I never adjusted for it.
Cut, shortened and welded the prop rod and adjusted the throttle cable.
MUCH better.
I need to behave and not hurt anything.
Archway Import Parts is having a turbo open house this Saturday, the 8th.
Gotta take my ugly old ride up there and see all their nice, new turbo goodies!
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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vindeta
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2009
Posts: 224
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: questions ?? |
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im 16 and im building my first Volkswagen (baja bug)
im getting a good running 1600cc single port engine and i really want a turbo.
i was hoping to rebuild the engine next summer and get it up to 1650cc and i also wanted to put, dual port heads, external oil filter, k&n air filter, high flow exhaust, .009 distributor (??), and anything else i can do for cheap.
so it will be pretty close to stock.
how much do you think i would spend for a low end turbo setup?
im thinking all stock parts and fairly low lbs of boost.
in the beginning turbo manx setup sounded like he had a bunch of aftermarket and "accessory parts" now i dont know hardly anything about this so im not sure what is necessary.
im not sure if this is right or not but could i pretty much get a mitsu eclipse turbo and bolt it on? (after making a custom header, and rigging everything up to fit.)
if i dont run alot of boost then i could get away with not buying a bunch of parts right?
so i guess what im asking is what is the bare minimum that i could get to start with? and then add more later.
hope you understand what im asking and thanks alot guys.
_________________
75 baja in progress!
http://www.azbaja.com/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=5767.html
build thread^^ |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: questions ?? |
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| vindeta wrote: |
im 16 and im building my first Volkswagen (baja bug)
im getting a good running 1600cc single port engine and i really want a turbo.
i was hoping to rebuild the engine next summer and get it up to 1650cc and i also wanted to put, dual port heads, external oil filter, k&n air filter, high flow exhaust, .009 distributor (??), and anything else i can do for cheap.
so it will be pretty close to stock.
how much do you think i would spend for a low end turbo setup?
im thinking all stock parts and fairly low lbs of boost.
in the beginning turbo manx setup sounded like he had a bunch of aftermarket and "accessory parts" now i dont know hardly anything about this so im not sure what is necessary.
im not sure if this is right or not but could i pretty much get a mitsu eclipse turbo and bolt it on? (after making a custom header, and rigging everything up to fit.)
if i dont run alot of boost then i could get away with not buying a bunch of parts right?
so i guess what im asking is what is the bare minimum that i could get to start with? and then add more later.
hope you understand what im asking and thanks alot guys. |
In all seriousness, there is NO way to guesstimate how much it would cost you.
Why do I say that?
Because there are WAY too many variables involved: there is no way to know how much you'd get your carb(s), intake(s), turbo, tubing, and the SEA of odds and ends that crop up for.
What I paid $25 for, you might not be able to find anywhere for that price and either have to pay more or even buy new for 4 times that.
With my old T25, I once estimated I had right at about $950 in the system, including the MSD ignition and every nut and bolt.
BUT I shopped Craigslist and Ebay religiously and did all the work myself.....ALL of it.
I sure don't want to sound mean in any way....I'm a REAL easy-going guy who keeps this thread going to maybe answer a question or two someone might have in their pursuit of turbo.
All I can say is take your time, shop wisely and do everything humanly possible yourself.
BUT.....be truthful.....if you're NOT capable of doing something (or heck, the whole thing....motor go boom if you make mistakes  ) maybe turbo isn't for you.
Bad things happen fast when you cut corners and don't treat boost with respect.
Sorry to ramble but best of luck in the project.
Boost is horribly addictive and the pursuit of more happens about 2 seconds after experiencing "low boost".
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4135
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: questions ?? |
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| Quote: |
Bad things happen fast when you cut corners and don't treat boost with respect.
Boost is horribly addictive and the pursuit of more happens about 2 seconds after experiencing "low boost". |
Very true. And remember, everything will cost more than you think, and,
having an understanding of what engine theory boost entails over the NA motors is essential. Most 16 year olds don't have that. Good luck.
_________________
CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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The thing that bites most first timers (in order of occurance):
1. insufficient fuel. If you have a carb, you need to make sure you are getting enough enrichment under boost to keep the engine from detonating. That means using a wideband O2 sensor, so you know where you're at. I run my 1915 at 12.5:1 AFR under load at 10 PSI.
2. Timing. You need to pull timing under boost, if you don't you'll detonate. That means keeping your ears pricked for the telltale rattles while tuning, and knowing what they sound like. Or, you can get a knock sensor to do that job for you. Most run 1 degree per lb of boost, but you'll have to play with it to figure out what you're engine likes.
3. Hitting 15 PSI your first time out. Let's face it: YOU AIN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME! No one is, unless you're talking about someone who works with known combinations on a regular basis. Creep up on your goals- SLOWLY. Start at 4~5 lbs, and if everything's working well, move on from there.
4. Don't get pissed if everything doesn't work perfectly the first time. You're new at this, things are bound to go wrong. But believe me when I tell you- the first time you get it all right and the turbo spools pinning you to your seat, it will all be very VERY worth it. In about 0.032 seconds, all the busted knuckles, profanity, late nights, and lost money will be gone. It won't even matter any more. Remember that, and you'll be just fine.
My name is Nick, and I'm a boost addict.
(round of applause)
_________________
Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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MO Turbo Manx
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2007
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| miniman82 wrote: |
The thing that bites most first timers (in order of occurance):
1. insufficient fuel. If you have a carb, you need to make sure you are getting enough enrichment under boost to keep the engine from detonating. That means using a wideband O2 sensor, so you know where you're at. I run my 1915 at 12.5:1 AFR under load at 10 PSI.
2. Timing. You need to pull timing under boost, if you don't you'll detonate. That means keeping your ears pricked for the telltale rattles while tuning, and knowing what they sound like. Or, you can get a knock sensor to do that job for you. Most run 1 degree per lb of boost, but you'll have to play with it to figure out what you're engine likes.
3. Hitting 15 PSI your first time out. Let's face it: YOU AIN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME! No one is, unless you're talking about someone who works with known combinations on a regular basis. Creep up on your goals- SLOWLY. Start at 4~5 lbs, and if everything's working well, move on from there.
4. Don't get pissed if everything doesn't work perfectly the first time. You're new at this, things are bound to go wrong. But believe me when I tell you- the first time you get it all right and the turbo spools pinning you to your seat, it will all be very VERY worth it. In about 0.032 seconds, all the busted knuckles, profanity, late nights, and lost money will be gone. It won't even matter any more. Remember that, and you'll be just fine.
My name is Nick, and I'm a boost addict.
(round of applause) |
Miniman speaketh the truth. 
None of us mean to scare off the new-to-boost folks in any way, shape or form.
All we ask is for y'all to PLEASE be careful.
Boost is far from a set-it and forget-it proposition.
Varying fuel quality, temperature, etc. all have an effect on detonation.
Detonation is your WORST enemy.
Read back in my thread........me and pump premium don't get along.
Tune conservatively and go back and re-read Miniman's post above...over and over and over....remember, he's fuel injected, too.
No "caveman fueling" carburetion like me.
AND a wide band is your best friend!
Shop around...they're out there.
That's how I got mine-used and priced right....right here from a fellow Samba member.
_________________
Manx-copy
1600 single port turbo
154HP and 180TQ AND STILL CLIMBING when the turbo thrust bearing let go:
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/MOTurboManx/?action=view¤t=Smoke.flv
[email protected], Nov. '08 at 141HP! |
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