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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 582
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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 Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hoped to accomplish much today. Got the old heater boxes off, had the new ones out ready to be wrapped, when out of NOWHERE a storm landed on us. Had to throw everything in the car and make a break for cover. Walked home cold, soggy, annoyed and dripping water all over the place. 
After a couple of hours, we were able to go back out to blue skies 
'Twas a tedious job, but I got the wraps on the new heater boxes using the old hardware.
Since today is our anniversary, and it was already an early evening hour, we decided to call it a day. But I'm left with a question:
Each wrap had 4 bands securing it, but the fit seems less than perfect when the old wraps are paired with different heater boxes. In fact, it seems they could use another clamping contraption (or two) to cinch the middle. Am I trying to overdo it, or is that about right? If I do need more, any idea what to use and where to get it?
Thanks for any ideas you can share. |
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Suesanctuary
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2007
Posts: 842
Location: Wishing we were still chest deep in Vw Parts at the Wolfe Estate.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Happy Anniversary! 
Bob says if you're not too worried about it being totally correct, you could hook two or three 2" hose clamps together, to get the length you need to go around and secure it. Or you might be able to make a couple on your own out of aluminum strips and a cotter pin, like the originals. (Like the "key" for opening a can of Spam, But in reverse- tightening the band clamp.)
_________________
Sue
70 Fastback-AT w/ pop-outs
Did you know:
New York was the first state to require license plates, back in 1901. In those days, you had to make your own. Sears even sold Kits! Massachusetts was the first state to issue them in 1903.
Source: Automobile Magazine, Nov. 2006 |
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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 582
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Suesanctuary wrote: |
Happy Anniversary!
Bob says if you're not too worried about it being totally correct, you could hook two or three 2" hose clamps together, to get the length you need to go around and secure it. Or you might be able to make a couple on your own out of aluminum strips and a cotter pin, like the originals. (Like the "key" for opening a can of Spam, But in reverse- tightening the band clamp.) |
Thanks Sue! I'll rummage through some aisles in a hardware store or two to see what I can come up with. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2239
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Suesanctuary wrote: |
Happy Anniversary!
Bob says if you're not too worried about it being totally correct, you could hook two or three 2" hose clamps together, to get the length you need to go around and secure it. Or you might be able to make a couple on your own out of aluminum strips and a cotter pin, like the originals. (Like the "key" for opening a can of Spam, But in reverse- tightening the band clamp.) |
That can of Spam thing is pretty accurate.
I can't believe it was someone's job in a VW plant to put those damn things on....seems like it would have been a punishment: "Alright Fritz, you fell asleep welding yesterday so you're wrapping heater boxes for the rest of the week".
Thankfully, Jessica has the patience and fine motor skills to get stuff like that done! I would have given up in frustration and used twine! |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I get stainless zip ties from a source on eBay and use them:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/110863109987
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2239
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Purchased. Thanks for the tip.
Out of curiosity, what do you use for wrapping? I sure sliced the hell out of my fingers a few times yesterday on the stock stuff and if we ever have to do this again, I'm curious to know what else is out there. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
Purchased. Thanks for the tip.
Out of curiosity, what do you use for wrapping? I sure sliced the hell out of my fingers a few times yesterday on the stock stuff and if we ever have to do this again, I'm curious to know what else is out there. |
I spent copious amounts of time soaking those wrappings in biodegradable degreaser, cleaning them, and then drying them and spraying with grey carpet paint... wearing gloves all the while. 
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2239
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| I spent copious amounts of time soaking those wrappings in biodegradable degreaser, cleaning them, and then drying them and spraying with grey carpet paint... wearing gloves all the while. |
Sounds smart and safe. I've probably got asbestos in the blood now.
What paint did you use on the intake runners.....a higher gloss VHT or something else? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| I spent copious amounts of time soaking those wrappings in biodegradable degreaser, cleaning them, and then drying them and spraying with grey carpet paint... wearing gloves all the while. |
Sounds smart and safe. I've probably got asbestos in the blood now.
What paint did you use on the intake runners.....a higher gloss VHT or something else? |
Just regular engine grey works fine on those- they don't get that hot. That engine is almost done- I'll post "completed" shots when it is.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23507
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| I've probably got asbestos in the blood now. |
Well, the good news is that the wrapping ISN'T asbestos. It's actually a fiberglass weave of something else.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vlad01
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3064
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
Purchased. Thanks for the tip.
Out of curiosity, what do you use for wrapping? I sure sliced the hell out of my fingers a few times yesterday on the stock stuff and if we ever have to do this again, I'm curious to know what else is out there. |
I spent copious amounts of time soaking those wrappings in biodegradable degreaser, cleaning them, and then drying them and spraying with grey carpet paint... wearing gloves all the while. |
pretty sure they are asbestos |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 36164
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe had it tested a few years ago, and it is not asbestos. He said it was a fiberglas/ceramic mix of some sort. |
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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 582
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thought we'd take another baby step towards completion today and install the lower ball joints that arrived yesterday...But whaddaya think of the size difference between the old (bottom) and new( top)?
The post on the new one is a tad too big to slide right into the spindle, even with the bolt removed. I thought banging it in with a mallet might encourage it, but D/A/N thinks it won't help because he believes it's just too big for the hole. I've searched the forum to see if anyone else has had this issue, but no one seems to mention trouble with the fit (unless they have the wrong parts but we have the right parts). Any ideas?
Then, we thought we'd also put on some new front shocks, but they also won't go into place because of a raised/protruding piece coming out of the mounting holes that you can see here (old one on top; new on bottom):
and how it prevents the shock from being seated here....it goes over the bolt on the lower mount but not even close to going over the metal "sleeve" because it just buts up against it. No picture of the top, but similar story there.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| neena wrote: |
Thought we'd take another baby step towards completion today and install the lower ball joints that arrived yesterday...But whaddaya think of the size difference between the old (bottom) and new( top)?
The post on the new one is a tad too big to slide right into the spindle, even with the bolt removed. I thought banging it in with a mallet might encourage it, but D/A/N thinks it won't help because he believes it's just too big for the hole. I've searched the forum to see if anyone else has had this issue, but no one seems to mention trouble with the fit (unless they have the wrong parts but we have the right parts). Any ideas?
Then, we thought we'd also put on some new front shocks, but they also won't go into place because of a raised/protruding piece coming out of the mounting holes that you can see here (old one on top; new on bottom):
and how it prevents the shock from being seated here....it goes over the bolt on the lower mount but not even close to going over the metal "sleeve" because it just buts up against it. No picture of the top, but similar story there.
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Hi Neena:
On the front shock, it almost looks like you have the sleeve that should have been part of the shock bushing frozen to the fastener. The part number on those shocks I sent you crosses directly to the Bilstein number that I installed on a front end about six weeks ago.
As to the lower balls, I just installed a set into a drum brake beam about a month ago- car is still here so let me go look at both shocks and ball joints.
EDIT: Wait a minute... your old ball joint next to the new one... old one sure looks like an upper and not a lower to me. 
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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OK, just surveyed two different beams and parts of beams- the "lower" ball joint you had is definitely an upper from what I can see. This would explain why it pushed the boot off. IIRC the upper shafts are just a hair smaller than the lowers, so you may need to spread the "clamp" the shaft slides into slightly with a big flat head screw driver.
But first- Question: could you have inadvertently switched your upper and lower ball joints when you installed them? Look and see if your uppers have a "shoulder" like your new lowers. If so, put your boot back on, switch the ball joints, and send me the ones I sent you back- you don't need 'em. And don't feel bad; it's an easy mistake to make.
NOW- Shocks. I just went out and looked at the pair of KYB shocks I pulled off a car to install Bilsteins, and they look exactly like yours. Try sanding or wire brushing all the corrosion off your beam mounts and try getting your shock on lubing up the shaft with oil or grease. It's a tight fit, and any little bit of build up will prevent the sleeve sliding onto the fastener. In fact, it looks like there's actually a ridge on the edge of the shaft in your picture.
Post the KYB number stamped on the shock itself and let me compare if you can't get 'em to fit. It should be 343144
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 582
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
OK, just surveyed two different beams and parts of beams- the "lower" ball joint you had is definitely an upper from what I can see. This would explain why it pushed the boot off. IIRC the upper shafts are just a hair smaller than the lowers, so you may need to spread the "clamp" the shaft slides into slightly with a big flat head screw driver.
But first- Question: could you have inadvertently switched your upper and lower ball joints when you installed them? Look and see if your uppers have a "shoulder" like your new lowers. If so, put your boot back on, switch the ball joints, and send me the ones I sent you back- you don't need 'em. And don't feel bad; it's an easy mistake to make.
NOW- Shocks. I just went out and looked at the pair of KYB shocks I pulled off a car to install Bilsteins, and they look exactly like yours. Try sanding or wire brushing all the corrosion off your beam mounts and try getting your shock on lubing up the shaft with oil or grease. It's a tight fit, and any little bit of build up will prevent the sleeve sliding onto the fastener. In fact, it looks like there's actually a ridge on the edge of the shaft in your picture.
Post the KYB number stamped on the shock itself and let me compare if you can't get 'em to fit. It should be 343144 |
Those ball joints were definitely sold to us as lowers by ISP West - p/n 311-405-371C. And this is what we have for uppers, hope they're okay: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QV6E52/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M2T1_SC_dp_1
I'll get a shock number later tonight (not near the car right now) because the shock fitting problem doesn't seem to be a matter of corrosion on the beam. The sleeve on the beam and the bushing on the the shock perfectly butt up against one another...like they're the exact same size. The old shock definitely had a tight fit. It was a bitch to get off and D/A/N had to lube the bushing with silicone to get it back on when we packed up for the day. It seemed like we'd have to take all the plastic out of the bushing for it to fit like the old one did. But one of us will post the p/n later today. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| neena wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
OK, just surveyed two different beams and parts of beams- the "lower" ball joint you had is definitely an upper from what I can see. This would explain why it pushed the boot off. IIRC the upper shafts are just a hair smaller than the lowers, so you may need to spread the "clamp" the shaft slides into slightly with a big flat head screw driver.
But first- Question: could you have inadvertently switched your upper and lower ball joints when you installed them? Look and see if your uppers have a "shoulder" like your new lowers. If so, put your boot back on, switch the ball joints, and send me the ones I sent you back- you don't need 'em. And don't feel bad; it's an easy mistake to make.
NOW- Shocks. I just went out and looked at the pair of KYB shocks I pulled off a car to install Bilsteins, and they look exactly like yours. Try sanding or wire brushing all the corrosion off your beam mounts and try getting your shock on lubing up the shaft with oil or grease. It's a tight fit, and any little bit of build up will prevent the sleeve sliding onto the fastener. In fact, it looks like there's actually a ridge on the edge of the shaft in your picture.
Post the KYB number stamped on the shock itself and let me compare if you can't get 'em to fit. It should be 343144 |
Those ball joints were definitely sold to us as lowers by ISP West - p/n 311-405-371C. And this is what we have for uppers, hope they're okay: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QV6E52/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M2T1_SC_dp_1
I'll get a shock number later tonight (not near the car right now) because the shock fitting problem doesn't seem to be a matter of corrosion on the beam. The sleeve on the beam and the bushing on the the shock perfectly butt up against one another...like they're the exact same size. The old shock definitely had a tight fit. It was a bitch to get off and D/A/N had to lube the bushing with silicone to get it back on when we packed up for the day. It seemed like we'd have to take all the plastic out of the bushing for it to fit like the old one did. But one of us will post the p/n later today. |
Plastic in the bushing? Do you mean there's a plastic insert in the metal sleeve? If so, then yes- take it out. They're making these shocks for multiple applications now to cut down on the number of different parts they have to stock.
Those Raybestos joints from Amazon are uppers, yes. Spendy!!
The "C" part number should be lowers. Wonder if they were misboxed?
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 582
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| neena wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
OK, just surveyed two different beams and parts of beams- the "lower" ball joint you had is definitely an upper from what I can see. This would explain why it pushed the boot off. IIRC the upper shafts are just a hair smaller than the lowers, so you may need to spread the "clamp" the shaft slides into slightly with a big flat head screw driver.
But first- Question: could you have inadvertently switched your upper and lower ball joints when you installed them? Look and see if your uppers have a "shoulder" like your new lowers. If so, put your boot back on, switch the ball joints, and send me the ones I sent you back- you don't need 'em. And don't feel bad; it's an easy mistake to make.
NOW- Shocks. I just went out and looked at the pair of KYB shocks I pulled off a car to install Bilsteins, and they look exactly like yours. Try sanding or wire brushing all the corrosion off your beam mounts and try getting your shock on lubing up the shaft with oil or grease. It's a tight fit, and any little bit of build up will prevent the sleeve sliding onto the fastener. In fact, it looks like there's actually a ridge on the edge of the shaft in your picture.
Post the KYB number stamped on the shock itself and let me compare if you can't get 'em to fit. It should be 343144 |
Those ball joints were definitely sold to us as lowers by ISP West - p/n 311-405-371C. And this is what we have for uppers, hope they're okay: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QV6E52/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M2T1_SC_dp_1
I'll get a shock number later tonight (not near the car right now) because the shock fitting problem doesn't seem to be a matter of corrosion on the beam. The sleeve on the beam and the bushing on the the shock perfectly butt up against one another...like they're the exact same size. The old shock definitely had a tight fit. It was a bitch to get off and D/A/N had to lube the bushing with silicone to get it back on when we packed up for the day. It seemed like we'd have to take all the plastic out of the bushing for it to fit like the old one did. But one of us will post the p/n later today. |
Plastic in the bushing? Do you mean there's a plastic insert in the metal sleeve? If so, then yes- take it out. They're making these shocks for multiple applications now to cut down on the number of different parts they have to stock.
Those Raybestos joints from Amazon are uppers, yes. Spendy!!
The "C" part number should be lowers. Wonder if they were misboxed? |
Actually, I don't mean plastic at all, so I shouldn't have replied so soon after waking up from a nap! The protruding sleeve is in fact entirely metal. Part number matches the one you posted, 343144. Bolt fits through the top mounting hole just fine, but the protrusion on the shock butts up against the protrusion on the beam, preventing the shock from being seated properly. On the bottom, it's not like it's hard to get over the sleeve, it's that the protrusion seems to be exactly the same diameter as the sleeve so it'll never go over it.
Speaking of being spendy, I wonder if at this point we should just shell out for the Bilsteins...we got spendy with Amazon because we were desperate and wanted the parts quick! |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| neena wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| neena wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
OK, just surveyed two different beams and parts of beams- the "lower" ball joint you had is definitely an upper from what I can see. This would explain why it pushed the boot off. IIRC the upper shafts are just a hair smaller than the lowers, so you may need to spread the "clamp" the shaft slides into slightly with a big flat head screw driver.
But first- Question: could you have inadvertently switched your upper and lower ball joints when you installed them? Look and see if your uppers have a "shoulder" like your new lowers. If so, put your boot back on, switch the ball joints, and send me the ones I sent you back- you don't need 'em. And don't feel bad; it's an easy mistake to make.
NOW- Shocks. I just went out and looked at the pair of KYB shocks I pulled off a car to install Bilsteins, and they look exactly like yours. Try sanding or wire brushing all the corrosion off your beam mounts and try getting your shock on lubing up the shaft with oil or grease. It's a tight fit, and any little bit of build up will prevent the sleeve sliding onto the fastener. In fact, it looks like there's actually a ridge on the edge of the shaft in your picture.
Post the KYB number stamped on the shock itself and let me compare if you can't get 'em to fit. It should be 343144 |
Those ball joints were definitely sold to us as lowers by ISP West - p/n 311-405-371C. And this is what we have for uppers, hope they're okay: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QV6E52/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M2T1_SC_dp_1
I'll get a shock number later tonight (not near the car right now) because the shock fitting problem doesn't seem to be a matter of corrosion on the beam. The sleeve on the beam and the bushing on the the shock perfectly butt up against one another...like they're the exact same size. The old shock definitely had a tight fit. It was a bitch to get off and D/A/N had to lube the bushing with silicone to get it back on when we packed up for the day. It seemed like we'd have to take all the plastic out of the bushing for it to fit like the old one did. But one of us will post the p/n later today. |
Plastic in the bushing? Do you mean there's a plastic insert in the metal sleeve? If so, then yes- take it out. They're making these shocks for multiple applications now to cut down on the number of different parts they have to stock.
Those Raybestos joints from Amazon are uppers, yes. Spendy!!
The "C" part number should be lowers. Wonder if they were misboxed? |
Actually, I don't mean plastic at all, so I shouldn't have replied so soon after waking up from a nap! The protruding sleeve is in fact entirely metal. Part number matches the one you posted, 343144. Bolt fits through the top mounting hole just fine, but the protrusion on the shock butts up against the protrusion on the beam, preventing the shock from being seated properly. On the bottom, it's not like it's hard to get over the sleeve, it's that the protrusion seems to be exactly the same diameter as the sleeve so it'll never go over it.
Speaking of being spendy, I wonder if at this point we should just shell out for the Bilsteins...we got spendy with Amazon because we were desperate and wanted the parts quick! |
Will the shock slip on the mount with the sleeve facing the other way, and is the other side doing the same thing? 343144 is the same part number I just test fitted to a beam with no issues, but the sleeve on yours looks thicker.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
|
| Back to top |
|
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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 582
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Will the shock slip on the mount with the sleeve facing the other way, and is the other side doing the same thing? 343144 is the same part number I just test fitted to a beam with no issues, but the sleeve on yours looks thicker. |
Probably not because both sides are identical, but we'll give it another go tomorrow when we do the ball joints (again)  |
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