| Author |
Message |
tcbtec1
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2007
Posts: 6
|
 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: 6v type 3 - warm start problems |
 |
|
This thing starts right up with the bump of a key when it is cold. The starter is brand new. But when it is driven for a short while and reaches temp you shut it off and try to restart it turns over to slow to fire, Runs great when running. Let it cool down 15 min or so starts fine again.
Every one tells me to convert to 12 volt and not worry about it, Just wondering if this is common or if there is an easier solution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Envious
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1829
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: Re: 6v type 3 - warm start problems |
|
|
| tcbtec1 wrote: |
This thing starts right up with the bump of a key when it is cold. The starter is brand new. But when it is driven for a short while and reaches temp you shut it off and try to restart it turns over to slow to fire, Runs great when running. Let it cool down 15 min or so starts fine again.
Every one tells me to convert to 12 volt and not worry about it, Just wondering if this is common or if there is an easier solution. |
First of all, don't fall for that old 12V nonsense. Ain't nottin' wrong with 6V. 
I tihnk poor/bad grounds are the greatest cause for this. Seeing as I haven't restored my car, I know it's the reason why I suffer from this same problem.
I'll try to find the other thread where this was resolved for me when someone posted a VW tech article dealing with this very issue.
The short version is turn off any draw, including brake lights, and start the car in neutral without depressing the clutch. Just pull on the e-brake, turn the key, aplly gas when needed.
It works for me.
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13584
Location: Tejas!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tcbtec1
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2007
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
I will give th ground strap a try, Would it only do this warm though?
Like I said it turns over great when it is cool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13584
Location: Tejas!
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
that's what mine was. It would start fine as long as I hadn't driven it in 3 or 4 hours. would start first thing in the morning every time though
another thing you can check is the starter by checking how much amprage it's using when cold and when hot. could be that the big power wire from the battery is bad, connections at the voltage regulator, etc
_________________
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Godsbug
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Renton, WA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tcbtec1 wrote: |
I will give th ground strap a try, Would it only do this warm though?
Like I said it turns over great when it is cool. |
Mine did the same thing. I ended up fixing it by taking every wire and strap that was remotely involved in the starter and around the battery and cleaning the crap out of it with a wire brush. I also lubed the starter bushing. To echo previous statements, put the car in neutral and keep your foot off the clutch. Works like a champ now. There's nothing wrong with 6V.
_________________
2017 Golf Alltrack
2011 Fit
1968 Fastback |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tcbtec1
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2007
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OK - I will try the grounding. It has new battery, new cables and new regulator - new starter and new wiring to each. Tune up including coil & new carbs. I have done a lot and it runs great it has just always had this issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25186
Location: Central Iowa
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Check the ground strap at the front of the trans. It is exposed to the elements.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joerg Fischer
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2007
Posts: 132
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: Try... |
|
|
Hello from Germany,
if this happens again, try to "jump start" the starter with a big screw driver or so thus giving 6 Volt directly from the battery (one connection goes right to the starter) to where the wire from the ignition comes from.
If it starts instantly you are a lot closer to the solution...
Regards Jörg |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
55OvalCharlie
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 895
Location: Nottingham, UK
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22686
Location: Escondido CA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 55OvalCharlie wrote: |
| i had similar - turned out the solenoid was on its way out on the starter |
Post your remidy. Iwas going to but forgot how the "ford" switch thing hooks up. Im sure Russ knows.
_________________
| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
55OvalCharlie
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 895
Location: Nottingham, UK
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well - it was the actual VW Solenoid on the side of my starter motor that turned out to be totally screwed on mine - so I fitted a NOS one and all worked a treat.
Also - cos the ignition switch assemblies on early type 3's are a bit shit and suffer from voltage drop over time I followed the instructions in this very useful post
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...p;start=20
and got Mr Kingsbury to pop down to the local NAPA store and send one of the parts over to me in the UK
Napa Part # ST-58
fitted it - so now, with my original ignition switch, the napa relay, the nos solenoid and an Optima Battery I finally seem to have an electrical system that works (fingers crossed!!!)
_________________
Aircooled Apparel
http://www.aircooledapparel.com
Follow us on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/AircooledApparel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
55OvalCharlie
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 895
Location: Nottingham, UK
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tcbtec1
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2007
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I redid the ground straps. It had a new solenoid as it came as a kit with the new starter. It turns over a little better but not enough to fire when warm.
did this since I had it still doing it ..
here is what has been done.
New (napa) starter with solenoid
new regulator
new coil & tune up, points wires plugs cap rotor.
new dual weber carbs (rods wore on solex)
new ignition switch
new wiring from switch to regulator and on back
new battery and cables
rebuilt bosch generator.
Went thru most of the wiring striping and cutting crusties redoing the ends.
Getting ready to give into 12v I have all of the parts to convert just hate to give in on a problem.. kinda stuborn.
Need to get the battery
have all bulbs, coil, regulator, generator, also bought 12v fan housing and mount even though not really needed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
55OvalCharlie
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 895
Location: Nottingham, UK
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
55OvalCharlie
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 895
Location: Nottingham, UK
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25186
Location: Central Iowa
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25186
Location: Central Iowa
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| notchboy wrote: |
| 55OvalCharlie wrote: |
| i had similar - turned out the solenoid was on its way out on the starter |
Post your remidy. Iwas going to but forgot how the "ford" switch thing hooks up. Im sure Russ knows. |
I use 6V Ghia horn relays. Check my previous post.
You can also use that relay to help the solenoid.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
55OvalCharlie
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 895
Location: Nottingham, UK
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25186
Location: Central Iowa
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Ford starter relay still pulls a lot of current through your ignition switch. Maybe 15-20A pull in. Stock solenoid pulls 40 amps pull in, 20 amps maintain.
On 12V cars, I use a Rabbit diesel glow plug relay. They are cheap at the salvage yards. I have one on my 69 FB and it cures the flakey ignition switch problem.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
