Engine ID and production #'s

[buggerrat]

Hi all,
I have a 64 type 1 car, still 6 volt, mostly original, but the engine is not. Turns out it's a "D" engine, with no serial #. (Only a D and VW stamped under the gen mount)
I've read that it is a factory or dealer only replacement engine and I think I know how to figure out if it's a 40hp or not. Dual relief, 10mm oil passages. The real question is, does anyone know how many of these engines were produced and sold? How may 40, 1300, or 1600?
This car was parked for 10 years at least. I flushed quick and it started right up. Has a little flat spot yet, but if I properly clean the jets, I think it'll run perfect.
I'm going to keep it in my car. I'm just trying to make sure I have the straight story on the history.
If anyone has time to fill in or direct me somewhere with history or ID help on this matter would be appreciated.

[glutamodo]

A single port engine with a flat spot - check the accelerator pump spray action first. That's almost always the culprit on the 40HP in my 62. I remember one 3000+ mile road trip when the thing somehow gunked up twice on me! (had to pull the nozzle out and clean it out, then tap it back in)

Yeah, I've seen D blocks built up to 1600 before.

The only way to know for sure what's inside the engine is to pull a head off of it and measure the bore and stroke.

However, there's some other things you can look at visually to help narrow it down. First of all, what kind of intake manifold does it have on there? (And for that matter, what carburetor?)

and you can always look at the casting/part numbers that are on the cylinder heads (pop the valve covers)

If it has the 1200 manifold, and if you can get enough of an eyeball on the cylinder fins from below, one thing that'll likely ensure it is a 1200 (rather than a big-bore 1385 kit, that is) are how the fins are shaped. I've never seen the big bores have the early type shapes around the fins, but I think I have seen 1200 jugs that were the later style. Rather than try to describe the difference, I'll use a picture:

[Zundfolge1432]

Just curious but what do you mean by flushed???

[buggerrat]

Thanks for the input.
It's a flat intake single port like the 1200 picture. Solex 28 PICT carb with oil bath on top. Tins are still on and I didn't have a light handy to peek at the cylinders. I'll have to check this weekend.
"flushed" means I Drained old fuel and ran new through with some cleaner, and changed oil.
I'm almost positive it's a box stock engine and it'll run perfect after I properly clean the carb.
I've been looking, but I still can't find any production numbers for them. Made in 1965 or so? Did VW keep track of how many engines like this were sold over the counter or installed by dealers?
I have some old service records with the car going back to about 1988, but nothing that explains the engine replacement. Seems that it could have been replaced under warranty. If I get a birth certificate for the car, and find out what dealer originally sold it, maybe the dealer would still have records to explain it. ( If they're still in business)

[Zundfolge1432]

[buggerrat]

Thanks
Na,
No flush kit. All natural. Motor turned nice by hand, but I couldn't be sure there was no damage. It had not been started in over a decade according to the story.
The old school way that I picked up by word of mouth is to drain the oil and look for metal pieces, shavings, or anything like that. If you see any, don't try to start it. Never know why it was parked in the first place.
If it's okay, put new oil in, turn by hand to prime the pump before starting.
The fuel system is easy too. Can start with the float bowl full of fuel, start and let it run out. Ad cleaner to fuel, Etc, etc.

I'd still like to know how many replacement engines like this were manufactured and sold. Anyone know?

[glutamodo]

Well, the D-series began in 1966. Actually, they started stamping them D in 1965, but at that time, the D was below the serial number as shown here (but continuing the old engine serial numbering series :

Then in 1966, they moved the D to in front of the serial number and started over with D0000001. This later type D-block was never offiicially imported to the US in production models. When you see them here, it's probably from engines imported later on from wrecked and decertified European cars stripped for parts in the 70s and 80s - I remeber seeing ads in the VW magazines, for dirt-cheap used 40HP engines in the 80s, when I first got into VWs. Then later on I found an old 1973 JC Whitney catalog that had rebuilt turn-key 40HP blocks listed in it. (I don't know if they were yet importing them from Europe at that time though.) I uploaded the VW pages in that 73 catalog to theSamba's Photo Gallery, here's the page it's on:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=252495

D-blocks that had no serial number were probably dealership items, and I have no idea how many of such were ever made. I do know, from looking at the "Worldwide Engines" chart in the back of the "Car of the Century" book, that at the end of the 1980 model year, the D-series was up to D14332626 - that's 1.4 million, plus any made after that, plus whatever non-serialed blocks made as well. So I'd speculate that at least 1.5 million D blocks were made.

Oh! Since you have 1200 heads - might be a good idea to pop the valve covers and look at the rocker arms to see if they are "long stud" or "short stud" - as the valve adjustment specs are much looser if you happen to have the old-style long-stud heads in there. Probably not likely, but you never know! For more on that, look here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103248&

-Andy

[buggerrat]

Thanks Andy,
That's helpful. I'll take some pictures this weekend to post so everyone can see what this is. I'm going to check the studs tomorrow.
The D is not stamped low like in your pics.
I'm wondering if VW didn't just keep it a secret how many extra engines were built, hence the lack of #'s.
Happy Holidays Folks

[buggerrat]

Sorry, holidays and rain have slowed me down. I want to post tomorrow.
I also have a sweet old 58 cut baja that's been keeping me busy.
I'll see if I can't post those motor pics tomorrow .

[buggerrat]

Here's the one I'm describing.

I guess my question is just one of curiosity and maybe not really helpful to anyone, but I think it's an interesting piece of trivia. We know how many cars were built each year, but not how many engines.
If anyone ever comes up with a count of how many were built and sold, that would be great. I've read that VW engines have been used for industrial purposes over the years also. I wonder if the replacement engines and utility engines sales were recorded in the same place.
Have a good one

[djkeev]

[glutamodo]

Yeah, sometimes VW would eradicate the original number like that, other times they would stamp a 2nd number off to the side like on the engine in my 62....

[djkeev]

[buggerrat]

Thanks, I hadn't heard that before either.
I had read that engines marked with only a "D" were factory dual oil relief engines sold at dealerships. I can't find that page right now. Some one else here thought that also. Is that incorrect? Or were the engines sold by the dealerships rebuilt engines?

[djkeev]

Hi,

according to a service bulletin issued 5/73 for the USA

Engines with the re-manufactured symbol(@ for illustration purposes), a letter, a number and ending with X thus>>>>>>>
@ H 123 456 X
This was a for a VW EXCHANGE ENGINE.
Before Oct 1968 the X was not stamped onto the block

From April of 72 SHORTBLOCKS were sold with the VW reman symbol followed by a letter.
There were no numbers, you were to stamp in the old engine number.


January 1968 VW notice says that

Crankcases with worn main bearing were bored out to a larger size. In addition a 0.5mm oversize crank pulley was installed on type 1 and 2 engines.
A "O" was stamped beneath the engine number to indicate this.

Crankcases with damaged mating surfaces or excessive camshaft play had the mating surfaces planed and the camshaft rebored, the crank rebored and the oil pump rebored
The left side of the case was planed 0.1mm
The right side was planed 0.3mm
a "P" was stamped beneath the engine number.

Still looking for any info on the "D" meaning dual oil relief.

found this...
D - 25 Kw 34 Hp 1192 cc 1 07/'78>00/'00 Mexico
D - 25 Kw 34 Hp 1192 cc 1 08/'65>07/'78

You have a "D" code engine? take a look, does it have dual oil pressure relief valves on it??

My understanding is (but no documentation that I possess) that once VW started boring dual relief valves they bored every engine they produced even the 1200's they rebuilt.

Anyone with more info or documentation on oil port bores and the "D" codes?


Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[buggerrat]

I've been told and read too many things. Oil passages 10mm on these?
I told a tech at a local shop what I have, he was impressed. He said the D block is great to build, which is why I want to leave it the way it is.
I don't know how to identify the dual relief. What am I looking for?
I've got 20 years with motorcycles so I understand mechanical, I think I said earlier in the thread I'm new to VW. I got this car 2 months ago and 4 more since. (Caught a fever)
I also want to say that this site is incredible. There is so much info and many helpful enthusiast that makes the endeavor to save a bug that much more enjoyable.
Thanks

[glutamodo]

[buggerrat]

Mine has the "P" also.
Glanced in my service manual for the oil relief location, but haven't gotten to the car to check it. I'll think I'll look today, and take her around the block a few times.

[123386]

I am new. And I have a question. Hopefully it isn’t really dumb.

I have a 63 with an engine marked D1115608.

I read this from a thread in the bettle section.

"Well, the D-series began in 1966. Actually, they started stamping them D in 1965, but at that time, the D was below the serial number as shown here (but continuing the old engine serial numbering series :

Then in 1966, they moved the D to in front of the serial number and started over with D0000001. This later type D-block was never offiicially imported to the US in production models. When you see them here, it's probably from engines imported later on from wrecked and decertified European cars stripped for parts in the 70s and 80s - I remeber seeing ads in the VW magazines, for dirt-cheap used 40HP engines in the 80s, when I first got into VWs. Then later on I found an old 1973 JC Whitney catalog that had rebuilt turn-key 40HP blocks listed in it." -glutamodo

Is it likely that my engine is the type of engine discribed by glutamodo?

Or maybe it's a rebuild from a 1955 Ghia?

Or maybe a rebuild from a 1955 bettle?

Any thoughts? Thanks alot.

Here is a photo of the engine.

[glutamodo]

Yeah, I'm sure it's a non-USA 1200 block, or at least it was originally built that way. I looked it up in my book, looks like that D1115608 engine was produced right at the end of the 1973 model year. That would have been July 1973.
-Andy