Electric Bug Conversion

[cooperhilscher]

Hey guys- Ive made a couple posts on here and some people wanted me to start a thread talking about my electric conversion that Im doing. So- Im making a bug run of batteries.... 10 12v deep cycle batteries and using an electric motor that ways about 150lbs and is about 70hp.

So anyways, I have never worked on a car before now, but let me tell you what I have done out of necessity to make this car work for the function. Its a 1966 beetle. One of the biggest problems is the suspension, since theres an extra 750lbs from the batteries and components.

1. Removed old drum brakes and installed Disk kits and dual circuit MC. Replaced old brake lines.
2.Replaced shocks with bilsteins. On the front shocks we moved the shock over about an inch to avoid hitting the steering arm.
3. Currently replacing spring plates and covers with adjustable plates and shifting them down more so they are stiffer.
4. Installing camber compensator to fight the weight squishing the wheels out.

5. Installing chrome axles.
6. Replacing floor pans because of rust....I think Im just going to cut the old ones out and weld new ones in.. is that what most people do? (yesterday we lifted the body off... pretty awesome looking underneath!)
7. Line-Ex'ing the fender walls/floor pans/ engine/ trunk compartments (line ex is a truck bed liner, Im doing this to sound proof and invincibilitize =))
8. Custom paint job
9. New electrical gauges installed (amperes, volts, Year.......)
10. New interior
11. Oh yeah this was a bitch- Took out the shift rod and ripped out the broken shift rod sleeve and put in a new one.

Anyways, I got the car running before we ripped it apart, installed the elctric motor which was fun (oh btw, because the engine stops rotating when you let off the accel, you dont need a clutch, its like an autostick now without the problems =). I got it up to 55mph.... Accel is pretty decent actually but I might upgrade my controller to 500amps instead of using the 400amps now. Anyways, let me know if you guys have any questions or suggestions! I would love to hear your input... anything on how to get these things to hold more weight... especially the front... I have no idea of what to do for the front.

[Russ Wolfe]

For the front, you will be in style, with the front axle dragging on the ground.
J/K
Seriously, have you looked into using a lowering kit, but using it backwards, to raise the front. Some of the people that are experts at lowering cars may be able to help.
Check with Hambergerbrad, one of the moderators here on TheSamba. He builds a lot of off-road front axles.
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[cooperhilscher]

I will definately look into that... I was thinking I wonder if theres a way to adjust the torsion leaves in the front? Just like the back you can bring the spring plates down farther to force the axle up more once you have it all connected... I wonder if the front has something like that...Otherwise... well... I got nothin

[KTPhil]

Overloading torsion bars might make them fail, not just sag. Maybe give them some help with coil spring shocks? I dont like them for the stress they put on shock mounts, but you've got a load to spread, so it may be a help.

[Wayne S. Johnson]

I used front and rear coil over shocks in my 68 Bug electric conversion. This Bug was converted to electric 29 years ago, the front and rear coil over shocks were installed a few months ago.

The 68 owner’s manual specifies permissible load weight at 838 lbs. and gross vehicle weight at 2,645 lbs. My Bug gross vehicle is at 3,380 lbs. including driver.

Stinking Gas report;
5/30/08, San Jose, CA $4.25
My GMC Sierra has a 32 gallon tank, total cost to fill the tank is $136. At 2 cents per mile, my Electric Bug can travel a distance of 6,800 miles for $136 of electricity.

That means you can drive an Electric Bug from San Francisco to Key West, FL and back for the cost of ONE tank of gas.

Wayne

See how you can convert a Beetle to run on electric power.
http://public.fotki.com/WAYNEWANG/electric-car-beetle-ev-/

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[rory_a]

I would also install some thicker rear torsion bars. I'm using 28mm bars in my street car and swear by them. The racers like them to stiffen up the rear for better launches, I like them because they help stiffen the rear for better handling. You'll like them because they'll help take the load.

Also, get some weld in adjusters for the front, and weld them in with at a positive-over-stock angle, opposite of lowering. Check with the off-road guys, that's what they do, as stated earlier.

[Woreign]

Maybe some torsion arms from a Thing? They can replace the Bug arms and give you some more clearance. You'll need the Thing spindles too...

[cooperhilscher]

Yeah, Im getting coilovers but it doesnt solve the problem completely, in my case I have 5 batteries in front and 5 in the back, and with the swing axle it sags (thats what the camber comp should help with) Im mostly worried about the front.... But, I think it will be allright... waiting on the bilsteins now.

[Wayne S. Johnson]

[SuperDave63]

Is there any reasonable way to upgrade the batteries to something better than lead acid (smaller, lighter, more power). I've got a 70 I've thought about converting but I'd like to do it in a way with as little damage as possible. (welding of battery racks etc)

[67type0ne]

Is there a way to adapt some alt/gen's to a converted car so it will charge the batteries or run on the alt/gen output while the car is moving?

Glenn

[onesojourner]

You can't make free energy. Read this:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.ph...13449.html

[Wayne S. Johnson]

[UncaJim]

Yeah, I was really going for stock weight in my conversion, so I used surplus Nicads which have much better energy density. Here's an older picture of the basic battery setup. It looks neater now but essentially there are 400 pounds of batteries for 60aH at 72v. that gives me a 25-30 mile range which is fine for most of my driving around town...

I have the full interior to use as well.

I used an Advanced DC 6.7 motor: http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/mo-l91-4003.htm

It gives me about stock 36hp at 400 amps. Usually when driving I pull more like 120 amps on average. The high amperes are only needed when accelerating.

Again, still a bit of a mess in the picture, but this is still the basic setup.

As you know, driving an electric vehicle involves more coasting and a light touch on the accelerator, but it's cheap, quiet, and fun to cruise by the gas stations.

The BugZorz is fine car and the bonus is that my wife can drive and enjoy it too. My previous electric car (a 1981 Ford Fairmont) had 1200 pounds of lead in it and handled like a water buffalo even with beefed-up suspension and brakes. If did have a lot better range and better acceleration of course (it had one of those massive GE motors in it).

I didn't modify the suspension or brakes at all on the bug though, and it handles and rides similarly to a gas bug as far I can tell.

Having done this now I can say the air cooled volkswagen is a great platform for electric conversion.

[twotires]

UncaJim,
Tell us more about your Ni-Cads. You have to have a special charger for those? Still only able to run the car down to 80% charge? What do those cost and where did you get them?

[engineerscott]

Have you considered going with Lithium polymer batteries instead of the Lead Acid batteries. The are much lighter and offer a much better Joules/Kilogram density. They are definitely more expensive but they should be coming down. Would go a long way toward solving your weight issue and would probably give you a longer drive range to boot. Another nice side benefit is that they have a lower ESR and should give you better acceleration times.

I haven't priced them lately but if you could find the right electronic surplus outfit you might get a decent deal on them.

Very interesting conversion BTW.

[UncaJim]

I got the Nicads from a salvage operation out of Philly. They advertised them on Ebay. They were metal boxes which contained 19 wet cells similar to these: http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?met...mfromid=32 for a nominal 24v.

My cells are stouter and shorter than the ones in that ad, but have similar AH capacity. I added another cell into each of the cases to get true 24v. I paid about $100 per battery ($75 actually, plus $25 shipping) and bought six.

They came in very used, #5 poor condition. Whoever packed them didn't put "this side up" on the box so a few of them had drained their electrolyte into the box! I figured out how to make the KOH electrolyte and made a bunch (I've still got a bucket of in it my basement), got a hold of a manual for the batteries which included a charging profile, cleaned them up, and bought some chargers used to charge the battery packs in mobile x-ray units, which were acceptable and got the job done.

It amazed me how much more energy density the Nicads have over lead acid. For my 400 pounds of batteries (two parallel strings of three for 72v) I got about 60ah. for reference, my other car had 1200 pounds of lead acid batteries for about 100ah, but at 120v. If you do the math it's almost double the power per pound.

As for running the batteries down, Nicad voltage doesn't drop off as fast as lead acid during discharge, so you can take them nearer the end of their charge with better performance. However, once they're discharged they're done! I limped home in my old car a few times which I can't do in this one. You have to keep careful track. I bought a Curtis battery "fuel gauge", but it only gives me a little warning because the voltage stays pretty constant then drops of precipitously.

Of course I'd love NiMh or LiPO batteries, but they are still prohibitively expensive. I am and was on a budget for this car, which I have already exceeded. I hope my wife doesn't read that. I'd also like an AC motor and controller to increase range and power, but the DC components were so much cheaper and were available used.

The only reasons I went through all the trouble with the batteries are: Because I am cheap and only had so much money to work with, I like a good Mad Science project, I wanted the car at near stock weight and performance, and I wanted to leave the whole interior of the bug usable.

That meant lead acid batteries were not a good option for my build. Still, lead acid batteries are cheap and reliable. You can get very nice AGM sealed batteries pulled out of telecommunications backups for very little from surplus companies. I use them for gokarts and the like, and for the money they can't be beat. Chargers are also readily available and inexpensive, which is not yet the case for nicads of the size I have.

[onesojourner]

Do you have a website for your car? I would like to read the full specs on it.

[UncaJim]

Web Page? That would require work!

Seriously, I have too many things going on right now to have bothered to put anything up on the web, but after the school year is over (I'm an Elementary teacher) and after I fix the recent hail damage I'll have enough time to put my car up on the EV photo album. I can forward the link then.

By the way, here's the site if you're interested: http://www.evalbum.com/

Always fun to browse, and the tradin' post is a great source for cars and parts.

[67type0ne]

is there a way to hook a alternator('s) up to charge the batterys as you go along? if you could get the car to 'self charge" you would really have something....not that you don't now but it would-could be alot better i think if you could use the energy of the moving car to resupply your supply maybe???