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burdpete
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 544
Location: Nebraska
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 Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Randy in Maine"]This works pretty well....
From www.type2.com
Oil Bath Air Filter Cleaning
by John Anderson
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"I read an SAE report a few years ago comparing oil bath wicking filters to some popular pleated paper and oiled gauze element filters. The oil bath was superior on all counts. VW knew what they were doing. It lasts forever and maintainence isn't really all that involved."
All vehicals that I know of from the 30's until the late 50's of even into the 60's used oil bath air filters. Now no manufacturers that I know of use them Im just saying.
I
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72 Beetle |
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air-h2o-air
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Joined: January 25, 2015
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete and why is it no one is using them any longer? Modern day engines go FAR more miles now than engines of yesteryear due to many advances that have been made |
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burdpete
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Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 544
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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New engines run longer because of over drive transmissions that keep RPMs at highway speeds to 14-1800 rpms. Also fuel injection and computers keep air fuel ratios near perfect now. which eliminates washing down the cylinders with over fueling when the choke is on or when carb choke pull offs fail or other over rich conditions. Oil bath air cleaners have always had the reputation of a great cleaning filter. but so are modern paper filters that weigh 1/10th as much and as far as maintenance cars that run on hard surfaced roads today can run 20-600000 miles on an air filter without affecting performance. Extreme dirty conditions is an other issue. Still if an oil bath filter after everything is taken into account was supiorior to a paper one manufacturers would run it.But there is nothing wrong with an oil bath filter. So I dont want to get into a pissing match with the oil bath guys. There is no down side to running one and the risk with an aftermarket gauze filter is that they are not quality modern filters, they are Chineese junk.But i run a quality paper filter from a reputable manufacturer.
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ROCKOROD71
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Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Ask yourself this, with capitalism in mind: What's easier? Pulling an entire air filter assembly out of an engine bay, taking it apart, draining the oil, cleaning it out with rags, soaking the top element in various solvents for several hours, letting it dry, refilling with oil and re-assembling, or popping off two clips, pulling a paper element out, and replacing it with a new one (available at your local flaps for $11.99), fastening the clips, and driving away?
Do you get why oil baths were replaced yet?
Your fleet of busses with gritty engines would have been saved if the instructions on maintaining an oil bath air filter were followed. Even the decal VW put directly on them (in no less than 3 languages btw) tells you to change out the oil and clean the element every 3000 miles, more often FOR DUSTY ENVIRONMENTS. What are the chances that a beer distributor, who probably have more knowledge of the empire hops flavor profile than the inner workings of an air-cooled engine, would insist on the rigorous cleaning of the oil bath filter at every oil change, and probably once in between? My guess is slim to none.
Oil bath air filters are very efficient and cost zero dollars to maintain (you can literally use old engine oil from your oil change), only time. One look around your community at the fat, lazy, Americans cramming into Wal-Mart to pick up their lean cuisine dinners to shove in the microwave while they let the space in their yard that used to be a garden grow over with weeds will tell you all you need to know about the amount of effort people are willing to put into doing anything of quality or substance.
It's not a pissing contest, both methods will work, and work effectively, but don't let the fact that car manufacturers don't use oil baths anymore lead you to believe they are somehow inferior. The way a modern engine bay looks...Jebus, if you had to remove the whole air filter assembly it would take hours and half the damn car would be apart. Lucky for us its only about turning one screw and unhooking maybe 3 hoses.
/end rant
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1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Both are good, one takes more time to clean/change, and time is money.
End.
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Red 1971 Squareback Thread
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22672
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| ne look around your community at the fat, lazy, Americans cramming into Wal-Mart to pick up their lean cuisine dinners to shove in the microwave while they let the space in their yard that used to be a garden grow over with weeds |
Ridiculous. Spraying your immediate living and play space with 2,4,4,5-tetra ethyl death eliminates unsightly weeds....
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.ssS! |
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air-h2o-air
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Joined: January 25, 2015
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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hey guys, i didnt mean to create a situation....Just remembering the comments of the old timers involved with VW from the 60s-70s.
We all have our opinions and I'm betting 1 we can all mostly agree upon is the liking/love for the old air cooled stuff  |
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burdpete
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 544
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ROCKOROD71 wrote: |
Ask yourself this, with capitalism in mind: What's easier? Pulling an entire air filter assembly out of an engine bay, taking it apart, draining the oil, cleaning it out with rags, soaking the top element in various solvents for several hours, letting it dry, refilling with oil and re-assembling, or popping off two clips, pulling a paper element out, and replacing it with a new one (available at your local flaps for $11.99), fastening the clips, and driving away?
Do you get why oil baths were replaced yet?
Your fleet of busses with gritty engines would have been saved if the instructions on maintaining an oil bath air filter were followed. Even the decal VW put directly on them (in no less than 3 languages btw) tells you to change out the oil and clean the element every 3000 miles, more often FOR DUSTY ENVIRONMENTS. What are the chances that a beer distributor, who probably have more knowledge of the empire hops flavor profile than the inner workings of an air-cooled engine, would insist on the rigorous cleaning of the oil bath filter at every oil change, and probably once in between? My guess is slim to none.
Oil bath air filters are very efficient and cost zero dollars to maintain (you can literally use old engine oil from your oil change), only time. One look around your community at the fat, lazy, Americans cramming into Wal-Mart to pick up their lean cuisine dinners to shove in the microwave while they let the space in their yard that used to be a garden grow over with weeds will tell you all you need to know about the amount of effort people are willing to put into doing anything of quality or substance.
It's not a pissing contest, both methods will work, and work effectively, but don't let the fact that car manufacturers don't use oil baths anymore lead you to believe they are somehow inferior. The way a modern engine bay looks...Jebus, if you had to remove the whole air filter assembly it would take hours and half the damn car would be apart. Lucky for us its only about turning one screw and unhooking maybe 3 hoses.
/end rant |
If you reread my post you will see that I never said that they were inferior.
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ROCKOROD71
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:31 am Post subject: |
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"Still if an oil bath filter after everything is taken into account was supiorior to a paper one manufacturers would run it"
guess I'm just reading between the lines here...
my statement stands.
No malice intended guys, I'm just spewing my opinions on the internets...
_________________
1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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burdpete
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 544
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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OK I give up. Im going on line to get an oil bath filter for my F250 and my GMC Acadia. Stupid manufacturers don't
know what the hell there doing. Technology from the 50's needs to be driving our economies. Im sure all the German engineers are putting Oil bath air filters on the 2015 models. Im thinking if I get one for my 55 chevy I can get it to run in the 13's because of course it has a built in velocity stack.
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Juanito84
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Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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I've got an idea! Feed an oil bath air cleaner with a paper element air cleaner. That way you get double the filtering.
Actually I kind of am serious. I'm planning on doing a hefty crank case ventilation system. The system is fed by a paper filter air cleaner to the valve covers. Crankcase fumes will be sucked out by a pump, actually a squirl cage blower, and blown into the oil bath air cleaner. The oil bath will act as an oil separator, and in turn will be running partly off of prefiltered air.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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air-h2o-air
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Joined: January 25, 2015
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Juanito, your not over engineering are you? Stock crankcase vent hose is very ample with a stock engine when connected to the air filter.
Curious behind your reasoning for this? Non stock engine?
I run belt drive vac pump on my race engines...but run alky and have 14:1 comp ratio |
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Juanito84
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Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| air-h2o-air wrote: |
Juanito, your not over engineering are you? Stock crankcase vent hose is very ample with a stock engine when connected to the air filter.
Curious behind your reasoning for this? Non stock engine?
I run belt drive vac pump on my race engines...but run alky and have 14:1 comp ratio |
No, this is my "fix" for super freezing weather, short distance driving condensation in the oil problem.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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ROCKOROD71
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| burdpete wrote: |
OK I give up. Im going on line to get an oil bath filter for my F250 and my GMC Acadia. Stupid manufacturers don't
know what the hell there doing. Technology from the 50's needs to be driving our economies. Im sure all the German engineers are putting Oil bath air filters on the 2015 models. Im thinking if I get one for my 55 chevy I can get it to run in the 13's because of course it has a built in velocity stack. |
Wow, reading comprehension is not your thing is it? "Technology from the 50's needs to be driving our economies" You can't even do sarcasm right! My point was that paper air filters COST MONEY. Used oil DOES NOT. Therefore NEWER "technology" and the throwaway society combined drive the economy. Companies make zero dollars when you are buying nothing. I'm not going to waste any more time because I've already deconstructed your argument twice. Keep going though, it's entertaining at least. 
_________________
1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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air-h2o-air
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2015
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Juanito, understood....makes sense to keep the condensation out of the oil..let us know how it works out |
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air-h2o-air
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Joined: January 25, 2015
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I took a look at my 73/74 filter today...NO ram tube/velocity stack....what changed from 72 to 73 for VW to remove such a necessary part of their historic air filters?
Comparing this to the small chrome aftermarket filters from 3 decades ago(Buckpack brand I believe)...the small chrome has more room for air straightening than the factory 73 once the air passes thru the filter. |
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akear
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Joined: August 18, 2013
Posts: 359
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Question... How often should we be doing a thorough cleaning of the coir media? I have not had my VW very long and have done just 2 oil changes, and each time I also cleaned and replaced oil in the filter. But I did not do the thorough cleaning of the media as declined in this thread (or any cleaning of the media). So I'm thinking going forward to do the deep clean of the media as it's no doubt really dirty, but thereafter just doing a few dunks of the top half of the cleaner in kerosene with every air cleaner service. Does that sound right? |
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ROCKOROD71
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Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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^^^Well, I did mine about 2 years ago after it hadn't been touched in probably the 40 years since it rolled out of the factory!  It was amazing the amount of brown gunk that came out. Haven't touched it since but I have changed the oil and cleaned out the bottom half many times. All the real heavy stuff gets caught in the bottom, the coir in the top element is for the fine particulates. Probably based on mileage but i'm not sure if there are any clearly established intervals. I might clean mine again at the end of the summer. That would put it at like ~15k miles since the first deep clean. I would be interested to see how dirty it is this time.
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1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| jon-boy wrote: |
Mine is currently soaking in hot water and Purple Power... amazing what came out of it with the first soak/rinse.
I know some people said kerosene because it will cause the coir to become "sticky"... but I'm taking mine to get powdercoated, so I'm thinking I'll skip that step. |
I just did mine in hot water and Purple Power... and all the paint fell off.
Any suggestions on how, what to paint it with? I was thinking powder coating as well. But the top is dinged, and it looks like there's some sort of filler where someone tried to fix the ding, but it still looks dinged. I don't know if that's fixable with powder coating.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7311
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Clean Oil Bath Filter |
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Dang, that thing took a beating. Looks like it was used for punting practice! 
Victor
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