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scottalford Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2011 Posts: 331 Location: Orange, Australia
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: Advise needed on convertible heater channels |
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After a Christmas eve session building a rotisserie we finally got the 1960 Karmann Cabriolet off the pan ready for body work. Unfortunately things not looking so good for the RH heater channel.
The battery area is very rusty with the internal heater channel tube rusted out for about 6 inches up within the channel.
The support rails need replacing but replacing the whole heater channel seems like a huge job just to fix the tube.
Does anyone have some advise on how to proceed with this one?
Much appreciated.
Scott |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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First thing to do is really check the integrity of your channels. You have made the plunge to do the repairs, make SURE you only do them once and right.
By that picture alone, chances are more damage and rust is present further than the obvious. Replace the channel or channels....
IF you honestly think you have no issues further than what you see, buy a whole channel, use what you need, and sell the remnants off.
Option 2, buy the inner repair sections, and use the portion you need, as its nearly the same profile.
Option 3 patch with available sheet metal. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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scottalford Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2011 Posts: 331 Location: Orange, Australia
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Ken, thanks for the comments. Yes, it is an opportunity to do the job correctly.
My concern is with repro heater channels. They are not the same as the OG ones as far as material thickness and profile. 95% of the heater channel is in great condition, but to fix the internal tube will mean taking off the bottom plate which is ok.
Is it possible to replace the inner tube while still on the body? Or is it beat to remove the heater channel and attempt the repair on the bench?
I was thinking that this may be easier. I would still need to buy a repo heater channel to get the internal tube.
Scott |
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6Kabrio7 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2006 Posts: 2387 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure heater channel replacement on a convertible requires a body off. _________________ 67 Convertible July 67 Yukon Yellow
67 Sedan May 67 Zenith blue |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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scottalford Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2011 Posts: 331 Location: Orange, Australia
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well looks can be decieving... started to remove the reinforcing rail and channel bottom plate today. The internal heater tube is way far gone..
Definately two new heater channels on the cards now. Which ones are the best for a 1959 - 60 model??
Scott |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:07 am Post subject: |
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You can easily obtain new channel bottoms.
IF the top of the channel in the door areas is good, leave well enough alone and make patches where it is rotted. This will be a LOT easier than cutting it out to weld in a new complete unit.
I'd give real careful consideration to if you can and how to simply repair what you have. You'll need to do some serious evaluation of what is absolutely solid and what isn't.
Remember the best metal on your car is the original metal, keep it if you can.
As has been suggested, purchase new heater channels and cut out the portions you need and weld them in.
The best heater channels? who really knows? it is a topic full of opinions that conflict with each other.
aircooled.net carries newer channels that they claim are OEM VW channels. You might want to check them out. It's a Good company to deal with.
On my Super, the top of the heater channel was fine, it had rusted at the wheel splash panel and allowed water infiltration which damaged the bottom.
Another place to look is at the lower A pillar (hinges). the door hinge screw holes allow water and dirt to infiltrate and then simply sit between the outer pillar skin and the inner portion thus rotting away the heater channel and pillar at that point. The drain hole in the front 1/4 panel often clogs from dirt and items being dropped down the "black hole" from the luggage area and allowing moisture to set and rot the bottom of the 1/4 away.
And yes, other's had warned you that the rust will be worse than you initially thought it was.
Good Luck!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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scottalford Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2011 Posts: 331 Location: Orange, Australia
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Dave,
Thanks for the comments. Repairing what I have would make a lot of sense. As I have said 95% of the heater channel is in good condition.
I'll continue to open the channel up to under the A pillar. From the outside the A pillar is not to bad with a small amount of rust.
I have a question.. which year model did the heater channel change to have the internal tube. I got a 1958 donor shell for the front and rear aprons and guards but the heater channels are only a single skin.
Could I convert my heater channels back to the older style or would this cause issues for my carpet with heat from the channel?
Thanks
Scott |
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scottalford Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2011 Posts: 331 Location: Orange, Australia
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Spent a few more hours with the air chisel and grinder to open up the rest of the channel. There is some rust at the base of the A pillar but the top of the heater channel looks ok there.
Now the decision - Repair or Replace???
I have some good 1958 heater channels which I can use some parts out of but what to do about the internal tube?? |
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Nubby Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2010 Posts: 605 Location: Down by the river
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Really depends if you Plan on running heat or not. Not really a very good heater IMO. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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scottalford Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2011 Posts: 331 Location: Orange, Australia
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Dave,
The top of the heater channel above at the A pillar is solid.
How does the internal tube come out. I can see all the welds along the length but how about for the windscreen defrost tube? Is it welded to the heater channel outer?
Thanks
Scott |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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type4split Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 679 Location: Hamilton, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: Vert channels. |
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I'm at the same cross roads with my late 57 vert. I can take more pictures. I have the channels open and donars as well. I can show The inner heat channel.
I have perfect donar channels but the metal between doors is fine. Just need foot well and rear areas.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=477853&highlight=vert _________________ '67 deluxe bus w/the little windows
'52 beetle
'55 convertible
'50-something convertible (*need ribbed 'vert quarter panel )
'63 "milo" beetle
Part, parts and more parts |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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For information I also thought the defrost pipe is welded. I currently have a pair of original channels out of a car, and have confirmed, the defrost pipe is welded to the channel on the top. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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scottalford Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2011 Posts: 331 Location: Orange, Australia
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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So it looks like the heater channels will need to be removed regardless. Either to fix or to put new ones in.
I might just wait to see how Gerson's new channels look and see if I can get a set shipped to Oz.
I'll turn my attention to the rest of the body work for the moment. The rear apron replacement will keep mw busy for a while. Then onto the front clip and fixing the guards. And if still not ready I can do the RH drive dash conversion as well....
Scott |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, If the tops are as good as you say, I'd figure out a way to simply cut out the defrost pipe to slide the new inner heater portion in place. If you really think the pipe needs to be secure, you can figure out a way to weld it to be stable from under, or use a high temp or body panel adhesive, to hold the defrost pipe at its neck. You could also leave the heater front portion in place and splice the center heater tube at a point where its solid. You have nothing to loose by trying. If during removal you dont think you can make it work, move on to replacing the entire channel.
I wouldnt replace the entire channel if if I didnt have to. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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