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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1791
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 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| Please change the title to include NSFW. Cuz this is nothing short of p0rn. |
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Ebel
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015
Posts: 564
Location: New york
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| What sort of compression is that on the 101 bore? 58cc on a 94 bore ends up around 8-9.5 depending on deck height if I remember correctly. |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:41 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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veeweeman
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 940
Location: New Port Richey, FL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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If I were to order custom billet heads, I would definitely order them in a Hemi style combustion chamber and then order pistons to match. ..nothing beats a Hemi design when it comes to making serious HP...it can be done and has been done before. ..my brain is drawing a blank but I remember a company, I think Aero that used to make a Hemi style aftermarket head back in the 80's.
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Never be a follower...Do your own thing, make it your own! |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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I respectfully disagree  Many motors used to have hemichamber ages ago, Porsche, Chrysler, Lancia etc.
Today you dont see it, not even new chrysler hemi is real hemi today. Most modern engines are fast burn engines without much ignition advance.
Old real hemi engines required a lot of ignition advance, because large chamber.
Look at JPM MS250, tight chamber, out of the box it made on a street/strip 2276cc ngine +265hp
http://jpmotorsports.se/ms/ms/j-p-motorsport-produ...cal%20data
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,19995.30.html
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| Quote: |
| Look at JPM MS250, tight chamber, out of the box it made on a street/strip 2276cc ngine +265hp |
I'd like to test some of these heads on a motor I have on the dyno when I get around to it again. Anyone got any to lend ? |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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Paul, ask from cal-look.no lounge, there might be few. Is it still much more rare than MS230, which has been made atleast 100 pairs.
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| Just the 230's would be OK and I can run them next to some CB Comp Eliminators which I already have ready for a direct no BS comparison |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| veeweeman wrote: |
| If I were to order custom billet heads, I would definitely order them in a Hemi style combustion chamber and then order pistons to match. ..nothing beats a Hemi design when it comes to making serious HP...it can be done and has been done before. ..my brain is drawing a blank but I remember a company, I think Aero that used to make a Hemi style aftermarket head back in the 80's. |
yeah...definitely no.
and a hemi chamber is best suited for opposing valves anyway
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| hemi pistons are heavy when done right... for the proper squish and the "real " hemi chamber. and just what is proper real hemi? have a look at sonneys hemi, that sucker is so sweet!!!! oh I fer got I also have a chrysler hemi in my garage...not the new one...probably older than many on this site. |
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Brian_e
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 3296
Location: Rapid City, SD
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| veeweeman wrote: |
| If I were to order custom billet heads, I would definitely order them in a Hemi style combustion chamber and then order pistons to match. ..nothing beats a Hemi design when it comes to making serious HP...it can be done and has been done before. ..my brain is drawing a blank but I remember a company, I think Aero that used to make a Hemi style aftermarket head back in the 80's. |
The main benefit of the original "Hemi" style was the canted valve stems that are not perpendicular to the bore. Unlike VW engines, the farther the hemi valve opens, the further the valve face is away from the cylinder wall. Valve shrouding is almost non-existent in a true hemi. The 356 heads had canted valves and a bowl shaped chamber.
A "hemi-cut" VW chamber copies the old Hemi style chamber, but they missed the boat leaving the valve angles the same as a stock VW. Hemi chambers usually require more spark advance to compensate for the very slow flame travel all the way across the huge chamber. Adding spark advances usually makes for more negative work since its lighting the fire earlier and pushing down as the piston is still trying to rise.
Canted valves, low angle intake runners, better exhaust port angle, and a a tight well designed chamber would be the ultimate VW head, but it would also require a 100% complete clean slate $$ design, and would be a bear to fit in anything but a rail type dragster. In a regular sedan or bus, the carbs would need to sit between the rear tire and the tail light up inside the fender.
Keep up the good work Alex. Developing any product takes a huge amount of time and money. Just to have one working piece is a big accomplishment.
Brian |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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Thanks Brian, and there is one pair made, not just one single head  They will go soon to a headporter to get finished.
Currently developing these heads did not cost me money, only lot of time and frustration. And even few naysayer along where there, but mostly good ideas were given along the way. Currently not yet any money has been made on the project, due to high prices of CNC work, lol..
Headproject started about 6 years ago when finnish CNC shop asked me to design heads for market. Eventually they said that they dont have resources to make at the time.
Time to time, i did a lot designing, improving little things and some bigger things etc. Also year or two was the project on ice, until 2017 fall someone started to ask heads from Finland.
Last winter i did some last modifications to the 3D model with help of the headporter, and eventually one finnish guy wanted to buy them, mostly because of they needed only little porting and have good cooling capabilities, and ofcourse being almost same in price compared to MS230 or cheaper than MS250.
I am going to order my version of the heads at fall or winter from other, better quality CNC workshop, only problem is that i need atleast 3 pairs to order from to get the price down to reasonable (check samba classifieds)
Here is some old drawings, since then has the model changed a lot, especially ports and chambers:
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Last edited by -Alex77- on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:32 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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I know you previously posted designs using the 910 intake port layout. Is there any chance you might offer this as an option over the comp elim port layout?
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| Stripped66 wrote: |
| I know you previously posted designs using the 910 intake port layout. Is there any chance you might offer this as an option over the comp elim port layout? |
It is very much possible, but price will high, if i dont order atleast three pairs at once. The designing is not the problem, price of making.
Designing of the 910 ports to current head would take about 10-20 hours, at max.
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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Fitting the current head with 5-bolt setup for use with Pauter 1.4 rockers for the customer. Unfortunately JPM 5-bolt rockers dont fit due to a very different valvespacing.
On current heads it is littlebit tight, but next heads have a lot small improvements
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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Did some modifications to fin curvature, so it fits with less modification with stock cooling tins.
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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rodeking
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 369
Location: near Buffalo NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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| Just out of curiosity, do you know what the CNC run time is to make one of these? They are beautiful. |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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I dont know exaclty, but estimated 3-5 hours atleast per head
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Billet heads |
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I am still considering billet head material for the second set of heads.
Some manufacturers tell their head material, some keep the material top secret (even when it is common aluminum, like 6061/6063/6082 etc) 
Most common available aluminum qualities that can be used to make parts, are these at northern Europe:
2024 T3 https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/2024-T3-Aluminum
6082-T6 https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/6082-T6-Aluminum
7075-T6 https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/7075-T6-Aluminum
6000 series seems to have overall max using temperature around 170c / 338F and 2024/7075 have max using temperature around 200c / 392F.
So, there is no definetly no aluminum that can handle 280c degree head temperatures, even if some one advertises....
Unfortunately, 2024 and 7075 arent wery good to weld, if repairs need to be done.
I was also thinking additional coatings to chambers and exhaust ports and recommendations for seat installation fit.
What is the material composition on stock / 044 heads? I heard that CB comp eliminators are made out of 356 aluminum.
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