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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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 Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:10 am Post subject: Front Wheel bearing question--I'm stumped |
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Getting back into the swing of the VW mechanics after 25 years or so... some has come back, others leave me scratching my head.
Anyways, I'm adjusting the camber on the front of my dune buggy (manx style), got the drivers side done with mostly no problems, however the passenger side....well...
Driver side had "normal" bearings.... passenger side has ROUND bearings that fell apart (imagine balls going everywhere hah)
I'm not sure if this is pre 68 or not.
I would prefer to ditch these round bearings and install the roller style.
I can post pics if I need to..
What parts do I need to take care of this? It's only the outer bearing (ball style) that fell apart, the inner still seems to be ok.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.. |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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The round style is called a ball bearing. They were used stock on link pin front suspensions. The other style are called taper roller bearings, they are better. If you have a link pin front suspension it will be harder to find taper roller bearings to fit but I believe they're available.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111405641A
You say you're adjusting your front camber, do you mean you're moving the shims under the link pin carrier? You say you don't know whether you have a link pin or ball joint suspension?(ball joint started in 66) Do you have a manual? The work you're doing is all stuff buggy owners can/should do, but without a manual you're just going to damage something or put it together wrong. It really is a safety issue.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1552144 |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5498
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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If the balls went everywhere then that bearing is shot. I just checked and adjusted the ball front bearings in my Buggy. They are a lot easier to pack. The correct adjustment for ball bearings is slightly tighter than roller bearings. The two types should not be mixed on a spindle. It is usually easier to find roller bearings as replacements for the old king and link pin spindles. I sought out the original style ball bearings.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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sandhopper
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norwalk Ca
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
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I just did the front on my link pin and got all the roller bearings from SOCAL
they have a kit comes with all 4 bearings and the seals
And they fit
I got some emip ones first and they did not fit ID was too small
Larry |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| BL3Manx wrote: |
The round style is called a ball bearing. They were used stock on link pin front suspensions. The other style are called taper roller bearings, they are better. If you have a link pin front suspension it will be harder to find taper roller bearings to fit but I believe they're available.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111405641A
You say you're adjusting your front camber, do you mean you're moving the shims under the link pin carrier? You say you don't know whether you have a link pin or ball joint suspension?(ball joint started in 66) Do you have a manual? The work you're doing is all stuff buggy owners can/should do, but without a manual you're just going to damage something or put it together wrong. It really is a safety issue.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1552144 |
yes, moved 2 shims from A to C, both sides.
driver side is roller bearings... passenger side inner ball bearing and seal seems to be ok, but yes, outer is shot. calling around local now to see if any open parts houses have any of the ball outer ball bearings... |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| sandhopper wrote: |
I just did the front on my link pin and got all the roller bearings from SOCAL
they have a kit comes with all 4 bearings and the seals
And they fit
I got some emip ones first and they did not fit ID was too small
Larry |
Got a link?
Also, if I switch these ball bearings out, (to roller style) it looks like the races are on the spindle quite tight... any thoughts on the PROPER way of getting them off? |
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sandhopper
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norwalk Ca
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: |
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http://www.socalautoparts.com/
use heat and a 3 jaw puller
Good luck
You may get lucky at auto zone , just tell them it is a 64 VW bug |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11057
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
yes, moved 2 shims from A to C, both sides.
driver side is roller bearings... passenger side inner ball bearing and seal seems to be ok, but yes, outer is shot. calling around local now to see if any open parts houses have any of the ball outer ball bearings... |
On Link Pin Beams.. CAMBER IS NOT ADJUSTED WITH MOVING THE SHIMS..
Camber is cast into the carrier assembly.. using the correct shim chart IN THE SERVICE MANUALS... sets the carriers to torsion arm offset properly and "compensates" for manufacturing variances.
If you think you just set your camber by swapping a few shims around..... you actually are simply binding the assembly and quick wear in the bushings will result.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=449284&highlight=camber+front
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| Jerry39218 wrote: |
yes, moved 2 shims from A to C, both sides.
driver side is roller bearings... passenger side inner ball bearing and seal seems to be ok, but yes, outer is shot. calling around local now to see if any open parts houses have any of the ball outer ball bearings... |
On Link Pin Beams.. CAMBER IS NOT ADJUSTED WITH MOVING THE SHIMS..
Camber is cast into the carrier assembly.. using the correct shim chart IN THE SERVICE MANUALS... sets the carriers to torsion arm offset properly and "compensates" for manufacturing variances.
If you think you just set your camber by swapping a few shims around..... you actually are simply binding the assembly and quick wear in the bushings will result.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=449284&highlight=camber+front
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half say you are correct, the other half say it's by moving shims *keeping 8 total per pin.
If there are any VW mechanics around Jackson, MS I haven't found them.
Hence the reason I'm having to RElearn from years past and do this myself.
I will say this, my camber was BAD... outside of tires are worn... I moved 2 shims to C on drivers side and it's almost perfect... still slight camber, but much better.
If it's cast into the assy...then I have a bad front end as I can see NO WAY of adjusting the camber out..other than the shims. The specs I got on here is what told me to move the shims. forgot what post, but I have a JPG of it on my phone  |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| sandhopper wrote: |
http://www.socalautoparts.com/
use heat and a 3 jaw puller
Good luck
You may get lucky at auto zone , just tell them it is a 64 VW bug |
Nope, not a single BALL type bearing in town...and only one roller type.
Might as well switch to the better roller type now...just gonna be a chore getting the races and seal off hah. I remember a 68 bug years ago I spent awhile "in training" with an "old master" vw mechanic doing the front and rear bearings and brakes... quite fun :/ |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| btw, after moving the shims around, I used a floor jack --to raise and lower--and noticed no binding whatsoever on the movement of the assy. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5498
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
yes, moved 2 shims from A to C, both sides.
driver side is roller bearings... passenger side inner ball bearing and seal seems to be ok, but yes, outer is shot. calling around local now to see if any open parts houses have any of the ball outer ball bearings... |
I'm not quite as loud about this as Volkswagnut, but camber has to be set to near spec, it isn't something that you can change much from design stock. You can measure the offset between the upper and lower arms and choose the shim settings based on that. The shims wear down over the miles and years, so if you are moving used shims around it is better to measure them with a caliper and set up the stacks based on the getting the difference in millimeters correct between the upper and lower inside shim packs. The shims started life at 1/2 millimeter thick. The correct offset between the upper and lower arms is 7mm, and slight variation is corrected my moving shims from inner to outer.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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So far so good then, as I followed those instructions 
It's already planned before next summer to rebuild the link pins and such... which includes new shims, etc.
I don't have a press, however so that may be a challenge.
For now, the camber is set ALOT better than before.
now if I can just get the wheel bearing fixed.
On a side note, I've seen mentioned about the wire that goes thru the 3 bolts... is that really needed? Will lock/star washers work the same?
I find that to be an interesting way of locking bolts down..never have seen that before than I can remember.
I have tons more questions, but will wait and post another time...
This dune buggy has a 72 pan, 65 or earlier frontend, not sure about the engine...it is a 1600 single port, with a swing axle. (and the swing axle has slightly elongated mount holes for the front transmission mount...it's tempfixed with thicker washers and star washers, seems to be doing fine--I had thought the mount was broken, but was just loose due to very flimsy washers installed.) |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5498
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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I just used wave lock washers. Watch your backing plate bolts. One on each side will be worn, it is the steering limit stop. It should go back where it belongs.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| I just used wave lock washers. Watch your backing plate bolts. One on each side will be worn, it is the steering limit stop. It should go back where it belongs. |
that must be the longer one of the 3? |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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anyone care to tell me what type drums I have?
(sorry for the blur)
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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And here are some pics of the dune buggy.
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5498
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| I just used wave lock washers. Watch your backing plate bolts. One on each side will be worn, it is the steering limit stop. It should go back where it belongs. |
that must be the longer one of the 3? |
I generally spot it as the bolt with the small end worn to a slight angle. If you put it back in the right side it will line that angle up with where it touches the link pin carrier.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5498
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:11 am Post subject: |
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The drums you have are easy. All 1958-1965 front drums are the same. That is what you have.
I can't tell due to blur what backing plates you have though. It looks like you have 1958-1964 plates because the slots in both the wheel cylinders and adjusters look narrow (the same width as the brake shoe spine.) The real story is on the backing plate itself. 1958-1964 has one resting spot for each shoe just outward of the hold down pin and spring and the slots in the wheel cylinder and adjusters locate the ends of the shoes. The 1965 style (and newer) has wider slots in the wheel cylinder and adjusters (and they are angled in the adjusters) and 3 resting pads for each shoe on the backing plate.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| I recently replaced my link pin bearings,here are the parts numbers I used,30304 J2/Q SKF and 30305 J2/Q SKF both are roller berings and were avail at a local bearing supply outlet'cost little over $50 dollars for both.I would think they will cost less in the USA.I have a 1961 pan as per serial number. |
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